7 Days Left to Bury Mittersill

timberleaftimberleaf intermediate
In case you haven't heard, the "Mittersill Project Celebration" is scheduled for Dec 27.  

Starting at 2PM with a dedication of the new TBar.

What's that you say?  Who the F "dedicates" a new TBar?  Why, FSC of course!  

Of Course.

And of course you can't "dedicate" a new TBar with no snow under it, can you?  Of course not.  And that's why all* of the $5 Million in new snowmaking at Cannon is now focused on Mittersill.  Pay no attention to the fact that the main mountain is an absolute mess after the rain on Sunday.  Gremlin is like skiing a rock quarry and the links are sheer ice by noontime.  

When you read the trail report, substitute "roto tilled" for "groomed"...

It's really a sight to see after all the hype over the new "game changing" snowmaking system.  Right.  Game changing.  Listen, the only game here is the fact that FSC calls all the shots at Cannon and that game has not changed.  They've waited an entire 3 weeks to play with their new toy.  Oh.  The humanity.

So c'mon out to Cannon tomorrow, bask in the glory of the $5 Million in snowmaking improvements ... and bring the rock skis.  




* The guns were on at brookside today as well - it's tough to keep this charade going without showing some revenue after all and Christmas week is all about the lessons...
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Comments

  • Posts: 970
    Now, this sounds like MY kind of dedication ceremony!!  :D :D :D

    IBRAKE
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 256
    The focus on Mittersill instead of refreshing the main slopes is totally for FSC and certainly misguided as far as the general public is concerned. That said, the new snowmaking system is indeed a game changer. I've never seen so much man made snow terrain open at Cannon so early (prior to the rain/freeze event, of course). 

    I can't imagine any mountain opening a new lift without some sort of fanfare and celebration so I don't see any problem with that. Would be nice if Cannon focused on recovery rather than expansion right now but a great snowmaking system doesn't change mountain operations from making bad decisions.

    I love how the person in their marketing department referred to "Paulie's" as "Polly's" in their Facebook feed the other day (since edited). Makes you wonder how many people that run the mountain actually ski it...
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,119
    riverc0il said:

     person in their marketing department referred to "Paulie's" as "Polly's" 
    Perhaps an outta statah intern who was told "Pawly's is wicked good"    ;)
  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 1,740

    ... And that's why all* of the $5 Million in new snowmaking at Cannon is now focused on Mittersill.  Pay no attention to the fact that the main mountain is an absolute mess after the rain on Sunday........  
    I think that was predicted on these very pages. So will the "semi-private" T-bar be open to the public on 12/27?
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • whygimfwhygimf novice
    Posts: 7
    Recent observations - the guns on Taft were pounding there last week. Done this past Saturdag. Focus today was grooming out that snow - using the cats during the day on the unopened slope.

    Today, late morning, a few spot guns were running on Barron's over on that side, but the bulk of the guns were running on the Cannon side.

    GS gates were set on skier's right on Gary's, with that slope shared with the public on skier's left.

    Snow cover at Cannon has arguably not looked better for this time of year.
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 938
    whygimf said:

    Snow cover at Cannon has arguably not looked better for this time of year.

    So what's with all the complaining here?

    There's also the factor that ski areas usually want every pod open by X-mas to spread the crowds around on more lifts.
  • timberleaftimberleaf intermediate
    Posts: 39
    For the record, other than brookside there was not a single gun running on Cannon proper on 12/21.  Whatever snowmaking they did, it was on Mittersill.  That's 2 days in a row.  I seem to recall something about the segmentation of the compressors such that they can't run at Mittersill and Cannon concurrently.  On the Cannon side, it's all about quantity of "open" trails over quality of snow.  If you want to chearlead you can certainly say that it's better than last year - BFD.  It's this year now and they spent $5M on snowmaking, it rained on Sunday and they haven't made any snow on Cannon to recover because it would be a major embarrassment to dedicate the TBar without snow.  They are sacrificing the benefit of the majority for the privilege of the few.  It really is that simple - always has been at Cannon, always will be.  
  • MrMagicMrMagic advanced
    Posts: 119
    Timberleaf if your so unhappy with cannon and their snowmaking choices why not ski somewhere else ? I understand your displeasure , but as someone who works in the ski area industry it is important to open as much skiable terrain for "crowd control " with in reason for the holiday week.
  • ME2VTskierME2VTskier advanced
    Posts: 108
    MrMagic said:

    Timberleaf if your so unhappy with cannon and their snowmaking choices why not ski somewhere else ? I understand your displeasure , but as someone who works in the ski area industry it is important to open as much skiable terrain for "crowd control " with in reason for the holiday week.

    If that rule is true, then they should have re-surfaced after the storm, that would have given them more SAFELY ski-able acerage. No point in opening more terrain that is going to be allocated to mostly the racers, and not the general public.


  • obienickobienick expert
    edited December 2016 Posts: 938
    With all due respect, you should take a chill pill.

    When you're building a giant base from scratch you need to make a wet snow that has time to drain before you move it around. When you're just resurfacing you have the ability to make fluffier snow that can be skied on and moved around instantly.

    So if you have a limited time, you should make snow on open terrain, and only then move on to new terrain that you can't open for the holidays because it's draining?

    Are you saying no one else in the region is focusing on terrain expansion before holidays ... a time you need as much terrain open as possible?

    Because on Facebook, both Wildcat and Attitash brag about making snow soley for terrain expansion (I mean, Peak Resorts are the best at snowmaking, no?), and Black ... who has no significant snowmaking system ... has pictures of giant whales. Same thing with Loon: giant whale pictures.

    So all 4 ski areas are run by stupid heads who are stupid (thats' a Ralphism from the Simpsons)? Ok.

    ---

    For the past decade, everyone online has complained that they don't make snow fast enough; they don't roll out new terrain quick enough.  Now they heavily upgraded their snowmaking system. And now people are complaining they're rolling out terrain too quick and should only focus on resurfacing?  Can Cannon do any right in your book? C'mon.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,119
    Hey just back from Newark airport motored up the turnpike to Rt 3 passed by my state ski area that my taxes have been supporting for 13 years now to the tune of $4 billion (with a B) dollars still awaiting opening day...regret I can't muster any sympathy for the little growing pains y'all are dealing with up there!


    ;) :-O :-O :-O X_X X_X :((
  • Posts: 2,012
    obienick said:

    With all due respect, you should take a chill pill.


    When you're building a giant base from scratch you need to make a wet snow that has time to drain before you move it around. When you're just resurfacing you have the ability to make fluffier snow that can be skied on and moved around instantly.

    So if you have a limited time, you should make snow on open terrain, and only then move on to new terrain that you can't open for the holidays because it's draining?

    Are you saying no one else in the region is focusing on terrain expansion before holidays ... a time you need as much terrain open as possible?

    Because on Facebook, both Wildcat and Attitash brag about making snow soley for terrain expansion (I mean, Peak Resorts are the best at snowmaking, no?), and Black ... who has no significant snowmaking system ... has pictures of giant whales. Same thing with Loon: giant whale pictures.

    So all 4 ski areas are run by stupid heads who are stupid (thats' a Ralphism from the Simpsons)? Ok.

    ---

    For the past decade, everyone online has complained that they don't make snow fast enough; they don't roll out new terrain quick enough.  Now they heavily upgraded their snowmaking system. And now people are complaining they're rolling out terrain too quick and should only focus on resurfacing?  Can Cannon do any right in your book? C'mon.
    What isn't significant about Black's snowmaking system? Places without a significant snowmaking system are places like Big Squaw or Mad River Glen. Black's system seems pretty significant to me especially with this year's additions.
    - Sam
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 750
    My guess is FSC/Holderness are paying some serious freight to get snow down, so follow the money. Once they get them set, they will get back on the main mountain. With the holidays set up the way they are, crowds will be hauling in for Mon-Fri of next week, so I imagine they will have things up and rolling by then so they can sell a lot of fries in the lodge and satisfy the folks taking lessons (where they make their $).
  • timberleaftimberleaf intermediate
    Posts: 39
    Take a "chill pill"?  Is it 80s day again already, ALF?  I swear it sneaks up on me every year...

    This isn't about snowmaking in general or rolling out terrain vs resurfacing.  Read above - it's about following the money.  If I thought that this decision was strictly coke vs. pepsi, then I'd say it is what it is.  You value more terrain over quality of snow.  I disagree, but I can understand it.

    In this specific situation, it's not about open terrain in general - it's about very specific terrain for a very specific reason: get the training slope open ASAP so the whos down in whoville can have their Christmas.

    So when you're skiing on rocks and staring at literally hundreds of brand new idle snow guns while you watch the other snow guns blasting away over on the other side, it tends to stick in your craw.

    Go somewhere else - sure, no problem.  Let me know where I can find the same terrain right next to my house and I'll head right over.  "Go somewhere else"... fabulous... you work in the industry and therefore everyone is a day tripper to you.  Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.
  • MrMagicMrMagic advanced
    Posts: 119
    Go somewhere else - sure, no problem.  Let me know where I can find the same terrain right next to my house and I'll head right over.  "Go somewhere else"... fabulous... you work in the industry and therefore everyone is a day tripper to you.  Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.
    All I'm saying if your that up set which it appears that you are I'd take my money (how ever you spend it, season pass, lift tickets discount card ) and go to another mountain that will allow you to have an attitude change. Loon, Burke , Bretton woods are not that far away from cannon. My suggestion to you would be if you are a seasons pass holder to voice your concerns to management most ski area (most ) value their season pass holders and their complaints and or compliments
  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,740

    Snow management decisions. Just another reason why I stopped skiing pre-1st holiday & during the 1st holiday week.

    Asked at the Sunday River Customer Service Desk the Friday before a Feb. holiday week, "Why can't you open White Cap & Tempest chairs & slopes? There's 9" plus of fresh powder on Obsession!"

    Answer, "A snow management decision. Come back tomorrow morning early."

    "But you'll have it all groomed."

    "Chances are we will leave that ungroomed." 

    The entire resort was groomed flat that night.

    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • timberleaftimberleaf intermediate
    Posts: 39
    Mittersill was closed all day yesterday.  All that new snow just sitting there while the crowd - you know, the one that was going to get all spread out with all that open terrain - was all concentrated on cannon proper... you know, the place that got zero snowmaking in the week leading up to vacation week.

    These are some excellent snow management decisions playing out.

    But wait.

    There's more.

    From the Cannon snow report today:
    Valar T-Bar Status:
    The Valar T-Bar requires additional adjustments from the manufacturer before we can operate the lift on a regular basis. The work will be completed as soon as possible and we will put the lift back into operation as soon as work is complete. We'll keep you updated with any additional information as we have it.

    Translation: the new TBar is down indefinitely after running just a few hours this season.

    And then there's this:

    ​​​​​​​December 27 - Mittersill Project Celebration
    2pm - Celebration Ceremony & Valar T-bar Dedication has been moved inside to the main room upstairs in the Peabody Base Lodge.

    They moved the "celebration" inside - some stuff you just can't make up.  

    I bet somebody had a champagne bottle all ready to go... perhaps they should switch to lemon juice?

    Sure I could go somewhere else... but then I'd miss out on all of this self-inflicted drama!
  • Posts: 2,012
    Oh come on. There's bound to be a few issues when a new lift is opened and the Mittersill Double is scheduled to open today, so I wouldn't be complaining. If you still aren't pleased with how Cannon is operated feel free to go to one of New Hampshire's many other ski areas and leave Cannon to those who can enjoy it without complaining.
    - Sam
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,119

    While I understand your  frustrations  -- I think deep down a lot of us have felt this way about a business or entity that we support and feel passionate about -- you'll enjoy it more if you look at it with a "glass is half full" perspective!  

    Usually in any business operation there are multiple factors that complicate top management decisions, and most often that data set isn't available or obvious to observers, employees, customers, etc. (just a friendly reminder, because you know this)

    Think positive!  OK maybe they've blundered a bit here and there but they're trying their best!  It will be a great season!!!!

    Righteous and Positive!  


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    ;)  :)] :)]
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  • MrMagicMrMagic advanced
    Posts: 119
    he Valar T-Bar requires additional adjustments from the manufacturer before we can operate the lift on a regular basis. The work will be completed as soon as possible and we will put the lift back into operation as soon as work is complete. We'll keep you updated with any additional information as we have it.

    Translation: the new TBar is down indefinitely this season

    That is weird that the lift would need additional adjustments from the installer if it was my T bar I wouldn't not be too happy about that, especially during x Mas week, hopefully they can get what ever adjustments are needed quickly

  • ME2VTskierME2VTskier advanced
    Posts: 108
    You would think the installer would have scheduled one of their techs to be onsite, to inspect the lift after a day or two of use, to check for and fix any issues. Sounds like it is more serious than a simple "adjustment".
  • CannonballCannonball advanced
    Posts: 130
    Did anyone go today to Cannon to "....celebrate the successful completion of this historic project."??   
    Just curious how the celebration went considering that this historic project is neither "complete" nor "successful". 
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 256

    Oh come on. There's bound to be a few issues when a new lift is opened and the Mittersill Double is scheduled to open today, so I wouldn't be complaining. If you still aren't pleased with how Cannon is operated feel free to go to one of New Hampshire's many other ski areas and leave Cannon to those who can enjoy it without complaining.

    Whoa, hold on there! Sure, timberleaf has been a bit of a blow hard about the snowmaking. But being critical of a favorite mountain should not be condemned. If anything, timberleaf's previous comments (that I suggested were making a mountain out of a molehill) have been proven to be a bit on the nose after all.

    Not having a new lift ready and working for its dedication ceremony is a major black eye, they had more than enough time to get that lift operational. Issues happen sure but good grief issues sure happen a lot at Cannon. If folks that bitched about Cannon stopped skiing there and went somewhere else, the mountain would close for sure so your commentary about going somewhere else is just silly. Knowing the mountain better than the people that operate it is a right of passage for any die hard Cannon skier... and complaining about mountain ops is just something we skiers that love the mountain do.

    :)
  • becca_mbecca_m advanced
    Posts: 115
    hmmmmm, when I was there this morning (very fun conditions, BTW), I did see someone with 1 of the t-bars on a snowmobile riding towards the Peabody Lodge
  • timberleaftimberleaf intermediate
    Posts: 39
    My understanding of the TBar situation: 

    There are 3 issues:

    1.  A retractor separated from the rope on the first day of operation.  This may explain Becca's sighting of a bar on a snowmobile.

    2.  The brake does not hold the rope when fully loaded and the rope runs backwards.  This is likely the main reason that the lift is down for "adjustments".

    3.  When held too long at the top, retractors fail to fully retract before going around the wheel and the excess line can become tangled in the wheel guard assembly.


    The manufacturer's response:
    1. This feature is covered in the brochure under the heading "Individual Autonomous Traverse Mode (IATM)".  When a bar is placed into IATM the riders are provided the opportunity to venture outside of the single track and explore additional terrain.  In this case, the rider experienced RIATM (Random IATM) which is to be expected whenever it is least expected.  
    2.  This feature is also covered in the brochure under the heading "Automatic Return To Loading Area (ARTLA)".  Rather than evacuate riders from line, the lift returns them to the loading area by running in reverse until all riders are flung from the line or equilibrium is reached whichever comes first.

    3.  This behavior is by design.  Riders are encouraged to release each bar quickly to ensure optimal operation of the lift.  Failure to do so results in lift stoppage which leverages social peer pressure to further encourage proper operation by all riders.


    OK, seriously... supposedly engineers are on the way from Europe with a bigger/better braking system.  AKA "an adjustment". Also, the wheel guard at the top is being modified to accommodate late releases without entanglement.  Just another "adjustment", folks... nothing to see here.  As for the RIATM, I have no idea.  When you least expect it, expect it I guess...

    I would LOVE to see the test plan for this piece of machinery.  I understand that stuff happens and things fall through the cracks, but how do the following use cases get overlooked?

    1. Retractors remain attached to the rope before, during, and after operation.
    2. The brake prevents the rope from moving in any direction.
    3. Upon release, each retractor recovers its line and returns downhill for subsequent loading.

    I happen to think this is pretty basic stuff, but I'm sure I'll be set straight here because it's really all about me being too negative.  

    I really should go somewhere else, shouldn't I?  

    And take all of my inconvenient facts with me...

  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,740
    You would think most of that would have turned up when inspected by the state but It's a "semi-private" t-bar anyway, so whether it runs or not shouldn't affect the general skiing public. Cannon had been running quite a few years without it.
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • Bill29Bill29 advanced
    Posts: 242
    If yoy can believe the weather forecast for today (Thursday, Dec.29) you won't have to worry about burying Mittersill. There is supposed to be a foot to two feet of snow up there and elsewhere in the north country, perhaps up to a foot in the Berkshires and lesser amounts in northern Worcester County. We shall see. 
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,119
    Bill29 said:

    There is supposed to be a foot to two feet of snow up there and elsewhere in the north country, perhaps up to a foot in the Berkshires...


    :)]


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  • NJSkiNJSki advanced
    Posts: 278

    Is it just me, or does it seem like all lift installation/construction is completed at the 11th hour?

    Usually nothing gets worked on for the first few months of spring and summer, then it is a race against time and weather to get things done.

    When was the last time you saw a lift completed by Labor Day, just waiting for the first flakes to fly?

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,806
    NJSki said:

    Is it just me, or does it seem like all lift installation/construction is completed at the 11th hour?

    Usually nothing gets worked on for the first few months of spring and summer, then it is a race against time and weather to get things done.

    When was the last time you saw a lift completed by Labor Day, just waiting for the first flakes to fly?

    Actually, the Rocket at CM was finished on time, although it was plagued by mechanical issues much of its first season of operations.
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