A GONDY AT BELLEAYRE??

JMaul

I can think of other better uses for the $8M

Story Here

mapnut

I totally agree! No one will ride that gondola to ski top-to-bottom. I already wish that their high-speed quad didn't go so far down the flats. I'd rather see the Tomahawk quad made high-speed.

I've seen a couple of different upgrade plans for Belleayre, both of which included longer lifts that go further down the flats, but not a gondola. If it's only a 6-minute ride for 1400 vertical feet, the comfort isn't worth the extra money. Sounds like a big favor for the resort developer. Cue the griping from Hunter and Windham in 3...2...1...

marcski

Screw Hunter and Windham. Both of those are owned by either a major ski resort corporation player or a bumch of hedge fund guys. What about Platty...the sole independent mountain in the Cats. As a NY'er I would rather my tax dollars went elsewhere...what about a 0% loan to Plattekill?

bousquet19

marcski said:

Screw Hunter and Windham. Both of those are owned by either a major ski resort corporation player or a bumch of hedge fund guys. What about Platty...the sole independent mountain in the Cats. As a NY'er I would rather my tax dollars went elsewhere...what about a 0% loan to Plattekill?

Right, marcski.

A gondola at Platty!

mapnut

Platty doesn't need much, except more skiers. Right now I'm not inclined to drive the extra miles past Belleayre to Platty, but if Belleayre gets more crowded I might.

rickbolger

"The additions of the new gondola, and modern day lodge amenities at Belleayre..."

I predict that this will cost closer to $16 million when all is said and said and said and then finally when all is done

mapnut

I wonder if there's a way skiers can get an input to the decision makers. "I ski there twice a year and don't think you need a gondola." That should convince them.

Folks on Alpine Zone are suggesting that if they want to shell out for a gondola, it should start near Belleayre Beach and develop 1900 vertical feet of new terrain. 

rickbolger

Might be a fun exercise to come up with a new chair plan, blank canvas for lifts BUT based on reality of the existing trail layout.  Here's an image if anyone is interested

mapnut

For the existing trails the only thing I'd like to see is a replacement of the Tomahawk quad. Redeveloping Highmount is supposed to be in the plans and that would have good sustained pitch. For new terrain I'd like to see a HSQ parallel to the present Express (which would stay, they'll need the capacity) but further east. It would start down in Cathedral Glen slightly lower than the Express, and go to the peak above Roaring Brook which is slightly higher. Thus over 1200 vertical feet. The terrain in there has good fall lines for green, blue and black trails. That's the only place you could add terrain without long flat runouts.

JMaul

This was from Dec 2015 when the private expansion and development of Belle was approved.

JMaul

Here's a scary plan. 

Hope money runs out before they construct this mess.

T_Bone

Belleayre, like most NYS owned parks, golf courses, etc. has been starved for capital investment from the state for many years.  However, they are now under ORDA which seems to have more funding than NYSDEC.  I like the idea of extending the area into the hamlet of Pine Hill which could use the economic boost.  A gondola seems pricey but might help attract more off season visitors.  Hunter and Windham seem to be doing well.  Would Plattekill qualify for some IDA funding?  NYS somehow helped Oak Mountain get a new lift some years back. 

LiftGuy

Wonder where they plan to get a gondola for $5M?

gtd

A gondola isn't going to attract me to Belleayre, expand into the old Highmount area would.

Currently prefer to go the extra 20 minutes to Plattekill.

JMaul

Belleayre posted yesterday on facebook tree clearing for the new gondi with completion slated for December. 

slatham

marcski said:

Screw Hunter and Windham. Both of those are owned by either a major ski resort corporation player or a bumch of hedge fund guys. What about Platty...the sole independent mountain in the Cats. As a NY'er I would rather my tax dollars went elsewhere...what about a 0% loan to Plattekill?

I agree. As a NY Tax payer I am not happy that the state in pouring money into Belleayre at the expense of family owned Plattekill.

slatham

mapnut said:

Right now I'm not inclined to drive the extra miles past Belleayre to Platty, but if Belleayre gets more crowded I might.

Really? When there's good natural Platty blows Belleayre out of the water IMHO.

mapnut

Slatham, the only time I skied at Plattekill I spent 60% of my time on the expert trails. Wore me out, and I'm not getting younger. I prefer Belleayre for the cruisers, or for 300 vertical feet of steep followed by a cruise, as opposed to 1100 feet of steep, which better skiers will prefer.

Interesting range of comments about the gondola on that Facebook post. Pros:  part of the reason for a gondola is for all-season usage like mountaintop weddings (but there's no pavilion!), biking, foliage rides and for some reason, cross country skiing on the crest. Also those who base themselves in the Discovery Lodge, which will be expanded, will be glad to have a fast way to the top. Some said the gondola will reduce lines on the Express.  Cons: Pretty much everyone agrees no one will want to ski top to bottom with the gondola, though one person is thrilled to have quick access to Deer Run. Most common complaint is that the money could be spent far better, i.e. lodge and snowmaking improvements and a HSQ to replace the Tomahawk.

rickbolger

Have they contracted for a gondy? Completed the engineering, paid a deposit, all that stuff?     I'm not suggesting this is government make-work and a publicity shot, I'm just curious why none of the specifics have been as well publicized as this liftline clearing work.

JMaul

rickbolger said:

Have they contracted for a gondy? Completed the engineering, paid a deposit, all that stuff?     I'm not suggesting this is government make-work and a publicity shot, I'm just curious why none of the specifics have been as well publicized as this liftline clearing work.

Bid Docs were created March 2017. No info if there is a contract in place.

Could be smoke & mirrors.

JMaul

Catskill Thunder.

Cachuga

mapnut

rickbolger said:

Have they contracted for a gondy? Completed the engineering, paid a deposit, all that stuff?     I'm not suggesting this is government make-work and a publicity shot, I'm just curious why none of the specifics have been as well publicized as this liftline clearing work.

"Belleayre" said in one of the Facebook replies that the gondola should be completed by December 2017.

rickbolger

OK so you saw through my carefully worded post.

What the heck. Well this is either A) make-work or  B) they are really putting one in.

If B) then I suggest the vendor was pre-selected and has consulted on the liftline, and the bid was written to their spec.

I keep coming back to A), blowing smoke.  Usually if you have a pre-selected vendor the bid language is more precise

We just have to wait and see

JMaul

Ropeways article has a Stowe photoshopped Leitner Poma, for what its worth.

lotsoskiing

at least they changed the skier's parka color as well...

Jerseydaze

I think the Gondi transfer lift will make a lot more sense once they expand west .

slatham

Ha I wonder if the fact that there's only one person riding it is a premonition?!?!?!?

obienick

Looking at that map, that's got to be the stupidest alignment for a gondola ever.

rickbolger

OK so they seem to be making quite a racket about this, I'll take them at their word. 

 I expect it to have very little impact on the number of ski lift tickets sold, but it will enable them to expand nicely into weddings/event catering, mountain biking, year-round sky rides, possibly mountain top dining, and such.

As for the photoshop hack, I think they learned their lesson with the pre-season promotion for cat skiing, when they used a cartoon with a crazy logo and nobody understood what it was.

obienick

Wait is that the name of the gondy? Catskil Thunder? Really?!?

JMaul

obienick said:

Looking at that map, that's got to be the stupidest alignment for a gondola ever.

I think it's their best bet should they expand into the Highmount area. It is also the highest point along the ridge.

I saw somewhere a proposed line to the summit lodge but was scrapped for some reason.

Also, bittersweet for the Tomahawk Area. With the lift going in, they most likely will be pumping snow on Deer Run and Dot Nebel much earlier than before. But, this will attract more crowds, possibly those with limited abilities that shouldn't be on those trails.