No More Mid-Stations in Vermont?

in NELSAP Forum Posts: 2,010
On their Facebook page Magic Mountain stated that the tramway board was no longer allowing any new mid-stations due to them being unsafe. Does anyone know anything else about this?
- Sam

Comments

  • jaytremjaytrem intermediate
    Posts: 70
    Sounds a bit fishy as I heard that years ago, but then hermitage club went and built one. Maybe they didn't bother with the permit.
  • ME2VTskierME2VTskier advanced
    Posts: 108
    Killington just replaced the one last winter, on the Snowdon Triple, that was taken out years ago.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 750
    Smuggs has one on Madonna I

    I can see not allowing new ones; doesn't sound like they are advocating removing existing ones.
  • ME2VTskierME2VTskier advanced
    Posts: 108

    On their Facebook page Magic Mountain stated that the tramway board was no longer allowing any new mid-stations due to them being unsafe. Does anyone know anything else about this?

    I wonder how they figure they are any more unsafe than any other top or bottom station.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,802
    For reference purposes, we had a thread on mid-stations:

    There are very few in VT.
  • newpylongnewpylong expert
    Posts: 564

    On their Facebook page Magic Mountain stated that the tramway board was no longer allowing any new mid-stations due to them being unsafe. Does anyone know anything else about this?

    I wonder how they figure they are any more unsafe than any other top or bottom station.
    The increased risk is of someone hanging off and no safety gate to E stop like at the top unload.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 750
    Also lots of snagged poles and skis, resulting in broken poles or broken bodies. I know there is danger at the top as well, but you have to get off the lift somewhere, so limit the potential wrecks.
  • teighsteighs intermediate
    Posts: 66

    Smuggs has one on Madonna I

    And on the Village Lift and Mogul Lift at Morse
  • JonniJonni intermediate
    Posts: 32
    There's also two at Bolton: one on Wilderness and the other on Timberline.
  • edited February 20 Posts: 8
    I'd be interested to see data on incidents on mid-stations vs all other lift accidents - if they've got hard data on it, OK - but I doubt they have it.

    My experience with lift accidents (being in them, or watching) is that it is like airplanes - the crashes are on the landing or the take off. Mid-station are only about landing, which is inevitable at some point in the flight, so I don't get the increased hazard. OK,you can goof up with a failure to keep tips up at the final unload as well as the middle, and yes - the mid-station can be a sneak attack there if you're dozing, so I guess it doubles that hazard on a single ride. That said, I think I've seen one accident like that in 45 yrs of skiing....nasty, too.  As for the "safety switch" issue, in my own observation, it only comes into play when someone stays seated too long, not when they are "hanging" off the lift.    

    Hmm...this is maybe not the first time VT gov't has identified a solution in search of a problem. My wager on the above recent mid-station reconstructions is a "grandfathering" into continued use. Killington may have had to "use it or lose it" on the Snowdon Triple. Personally, I love them as a throwback - but I only occasionally use them. 

    What I've always wanted to see was the use of mid-stations for uploading and unloading, like the one on the Mad River single.  I knew an instructor at Bolton 20+ yrs ago, who had a deal with the mid-station Wilderness chair lifty mid-week, where he was allowed to ski up the ramp out of the way of the chairs and then load the chair himself going back up....THAT would be cool.  If the Tram Board is worried about this practice I'd have to agree this is unsafe....:)]  
  • NJSkiNJSki advanced
    edited February 20 Posts: 276

    I remember the old midstation at Great Gorge South. Sometimes it would be tricky depending on the depth of snow whether or not putting up the safety bar was a better bet or not. You would have to be sure to keep your skis at the right angle so as not to hook a tip. Being long legged, I can also remember undo stress being put on my knees by the safety bar.

    Campgaw in NJ still lists it's #2 chairlift as having a midstation.   

    I do love the idea of the midstation being a loading point for early/late season skiing, but it does not seem that anyone does that configuration anymore.

    The midstation at MRG on the Sunnyside double, I feel, is something that should be brought back. I have criticized the accessibility of Birdland for Novice skiers, and feel that this would be a great help. It would allow skiers easy access to Birdland via the appropriately named "Easy Way" without having to make an intimidating trip to the summit and work your way down amongst heavy skier traffic.

  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 935
    I call bull.  Killington just put one in on their Snowdon Triple.
  • newpylongnewpylong expert
    edited February 20 Posts: 564
    obienick said:

    I call bull.  Killington just put one in on their Snowdon Triple.

    The as built for the Snowdon Triple included it. It is possible the board granted an exemption due to this. I doubt you will find anything written in their rules and regulations about it without going through minutes. At least in NH the tramway board has uses their engineering background and personal opinions in many cases where regulations do not exist. Therefor there may be nothing outlawing a midstation but the board could hum and haw about it.

  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 256
    I could certainly see the concern of inattentive skiers not keeping their tips up. But someone would have to be really out to lunch to miss a mid-station. Some mid-stations are active while others are passive which makes a difference, I think. Some mid-stations force a ski touchdown regardless of whether you intend to unload or not. Others like Smuggs M1 you actually have to hop off the chair to touchdown. In either case, in inattentive skier could dig a tip and have a really bad result. Makes sense to exempt already installed mid-stations but that is an unfortunate ruling as mid-stations allow for a lot of flexibility from an operations and also a skiing perspective. The mid-stations in VT I have used most is Bolton's Timberline... unload a mid and bang a left and keep cycling... absolute gold on a powder day.
  • Bill29Bill29 advanced
    Posts: 242
    A million years ago, when Killington was an infant, skiing in late May and (sometimes) early June was done pretty much on upper Cascades. Once you  got to the top, you made your runs to the Cascade mid-station and re-loaded there. When you were done for the day, you skied to the mid-station and loaded onto the chair to ride down to the bottom. I don't remember any problems with that, though it was long ago and sometimes I forget the bad stuff.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 750
    Mid station on the single at MRG works that way, though not sure if they still download from MS. I know they unload and load uphill traffic. Great for laps in the spring; I remember on busy days they'd skip chairs from time to time at the bottom so people at MS could get on.
  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 1,737
    Bill29 said:

    A million years ago, when Killington was an infant, skiing in late May and (sometimes) early June was done pretty much on upper Cascades. Once you  got to the top, you made your runs to the Cascade mid-station and re-loaded there. When you were done for the day, you skied to the mid-station and loaded onto the chair to ride down to the bottom. I don't remember any problems with that, though it was long ago and sometimes I forget the bad stuff.

    Been there, done that and I don't recall any issues either. Although I'm thinking back then there weren't too many novices among the early & late season skiers. Except me
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,802
    ski_it said:

    Bill29 said:

    A million years ago, when Killington was an infant, skiing in late May and (sometimes) early June was done pretty much on upper Cascades. Once you  got to the top, you made your runs to the Cascade mid-station and re-loaded there. When you were done for the day, you skied to the mid-station and loaded onto the chair to ride down to the bottom. I don't remember any problems with that, though it was long ago and sometimes I forget the bad stuff.

    Been there, done that and I don't recall any issues either. Although I'm thinking back then there weren't too many novices among the early & late season skiers. Except me
    The mid-station was raised when it was in operation.  During the main part of the season, it wasn't used and was lowered so that it didn't have to be staffed and was not in the way.
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