2017 Killington World Cup

obienickobienick expert
in NELSAP Forum Posts: 762
This is an update for my trip report in the 2016-2017 Killington thread, where I mentioned overhearing an instructor who had said management was confident in getting the WC back.  I figured this was a little too off topic for that thread.

Little did I know about the big news that broke last weekend in the Aspen Daily News... Aspen has been stripped of hosting the WC in November.  The article beats around the bush about how Aspen is awaiting hotel permits for their base reconstruction so they can build a new quad, and how it the Aspen WC has such great attendance (not) and the course prep for the finals was outstanding (of course with their large snowfall this year).

But the key is this little ditty:

The state of Ruthie’s restaurant, which has been shuttered for years but was reopened to provide racer support services for this event, was also noted by Lewis as a deficiency.


"A deficiency". That sounds like about as good spin as one can do with respect to an abandoned building hastily brought back to life for a 7-day long event. 

With Aspen out (which the ADN even admits is for at least the "short term" which IMHO is more than a year), that leaves a hole in the schedule. Honestly, there really isn't anything that can plug that hole other than Killington unless FIS does a massive calendar shakeup.  Even Beaver Creek has struggled in recent years with respect to snowmaking for their race which is the week after.  

Comments

  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 221
    This article suggests that Killington is a clear frontrunner to host a womens WC again in November and the town and resort are already reviewing plans. I figured K took a financial loss and called it marketing but the cost quoted in the article is stunning. Bravo that they lost so much money and still want to do it again. I would be glad to go again, it was quite the event. 
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    It was my impression part of the high cost was replacement of air pipe up from the Bear compressors. But even if not, you don't get this kind of international marketing in any other way.
  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    Posts: 438
    New 8" ID epoxy jacketed snowmaking pipe is only around $20/ft new. It's about a mile from Bear to Skye Peak. $100,000 right there, steep but only a fraction of their costs.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    The cost of getting the hill ready only scratches the surface...WC races are insanely expensive, mainly b/c you have to house and feed all athletes, coaches and a ton of FIS staff. Pretty expensive way to get a skiers from overseas, but it must pay off.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,484
    riverc0il said:

    This article suggests that Killington is a clear frontrunner to host a womens WC again in November and the town and resort are already reviewing plans. I figured K took a financial loss and called it marketing but the cost quoted in the article is stunning. Bravo that they lost so much money and still want to do it again. I would be glad to go again, it was quite the event. 

    I didn't see anything in the article that Killington lost a bundle.  What figure was cited for their loss?  I know the restaurants, h/motel owners didn't lose.
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited March 27 Posts: 762
    Killington must provide hotel space and food to the racers for free. It could be that the books are askew with expensive numbers? Like how you never pay the rate on the back of the door in a hotel... always cheaper.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    obienick said:

    Killington must provide hotel space and food to the racers for free. It could be that the books are askew with expensive numbers? Like how you never pay the rate on the back of the door in a hotel... always cheaper.

    and their coaches, servicemen and media
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,484
    The recent postings appear more as supposition as opposed to hard figures.  I suspect that 30K people over two days provided a lot of cash flow in the Killington owned Cafeterias and bars, as well as Killington's cut of "central bookings".  I was also told that Killington sold a lot more lift tickets that weekend than they did on a typical TGDay weekend.  I'm not claiming to know for sure, but I'd like to see some real numbers on this one before assuming that Killington lost a fortune (or small fortune).
  • Dirk109Dirk109 novice
    edited March 27 Posts: 6




    Killington Mtn. loss between 150k-200k.
    Also the access rd. businesses did not see any real growth in sales due to the
    congestion on the rd.. Killington selling more lift tickets on that weekend was
    a given due to more people, but overall while it was great for the spectators,
    the town of Killington didn’t walk away with any real revenue growth..





  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    edited March 27 Posts: 438
    I find that very hard to believe.
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 221
    The recent postings appear more as supposition as opposed to hard figures.  I suspect that 30K people over two days provided a lot of cash flow in the Killington owned Cafeterias and bars, as well as Killington's cut of "central bookings".  I was also told that Killington sold a lot more lift tickets that weekend than they did on a typical TGDay weekend.  I'm not claiming to know for sure, but I'd like to see some real numbers on this one before assuming that Killington lost a fortune (or small fortune).
    It is right in the article I linked to, which quotes Solimano:

    "Altogether, Solimano told town officials, the cost to the resort for last year’s event was more than $2.5 million, which was offset by $1.3 million in revenue, most of which came from sponsors. The net cost to the resort was $1.2 million, he added."

    I am assuming those numbers are strictly directly related to that weekend. It is probably more challenging to estimate the effect in increased bookings, pass sales, and related increased visitor services sales/profit due to increased visibility after the event or perhaps long term positive vibes about the mountain.
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited March 31 Posts: 762
    FWIW, in Killington's 2017-18 season pass promo video published Thursday, a message that flashes by fast reads "More World Cups".

    image
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,484
    riverc0il said:

    The recent postings appear more as supposition as opposed to hard figures.  I suspect that 30K people over two days provided a lot of cash flow in the Killington owned Cafeterias and bars, as well as Killington's cut of "central bookings".  I was also told that Killington sold a lot more lift tickets that weekend than they did on a typical TGDay weekend.  I'm not claiming to know for sure, but I'd like to see some real numbers on this one before assuming that Killington lost a fortune (or small fortune).
    It is right in the article I linked to, which quotes Solimano:

    "Altogether, Solimano told town officials, the cost to the resort for last year’s event was more than $2.5 million, which was offset by $1.3 million in revenue, most of which came from sponsors. The net cost to the resort was $1.2 million, he added."

    I am assuming those numbers are strictly directly related to that weekend. It is probably more challenging to estimate the effect in increased bookings, pass sales, and related increased visitor services sales/profit due to increased visibility after the event or perhaps long term positive vibes about the mountain.
    I suspect that a substantial amount of the cost was snowmaking which has had a long term impact on the Superstar glacier as well as all the things you mention above.  (I wonder how much the Superstar Glacier costs.)
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 221
    They were going to blow Superstar eventually anyways so I really don't see that being a major financial factor. They blew it a bit earlier than normal in more marginal conditions (but they usually blow it not much later and conditions can be just as marginal later). I am sure it was a net increase in snow making budget but I suspect not even in their top ten costs for the event.

    Just for the bussing alone... they ran every bus they had pretty much non-stop for two full days and they had all hands on deck personnel wise for 72 hours. Huge amounts of fuel as they were bussing non-stop to/from Pico, Skyeship base, and many other locations. They needed volunteer staff just to pull it off. And many people that came to watch the race used facilities often without paying a dime (goodness knows I did not contribute a penny financially while I was there). They had an entire trail pod running and not one paying guest using it, which would be considered a catastrophic waste any other day. I am sure they needed to pay for local/state police details and other security. I suspect personnel, transportation, and security were their three biggest expenses. Plus opportunity costs for racers and staff using lodging that might have been rented at a profit. 
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    And they usually open Superstar around Thanksgiving anyways. They just needed more inefficient guns to guarantee enough snow for Thanksgiving weekend.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,484
    Riverc0il said, "And many people that came to watch the race used facilities often without paying a dime (goodness knows I did not contribute a penny financially while I was there)."

    Statistical averages indicate you are the exception on this one.  I recall a few years ago, Cranmore ran a anniversary day and charged what they charged when the area opened, $3.30.  I remember someone on SJ1.0 reporting that Cranmore did the biggest net gross for any non-holiday weekday ever.
  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    Posts: 438
    Snowmaking not being in the top ten? I think perhaps you folks underestimate the cost of high output in marginal conditions. I have heard ranges from $400K to way on up for snowmaking alone for this event. They filled the compressor pads at Snowshed and Bear. Every time the wet bulb moved into low marginal they ran. There is no comparison between the cost to turn that much water into snow when they did vs later on.
  • DrJeffDrJeff advanced
    Posts: 259
    newpylong said:

    Snowmaking not being in the top ten? I think perhaps you folks underestimate the cost of high output in marginal conditions. I have heard ranges from $400K to way on up for snowmaking alone for this event. They filled the compressor pads at Snowshed and Bear. Every time the wet bulb moved into low marginal they ran. There is no comparison between the cost to turn that much water into snow when they did vs later on.

    Exactly!! That bottom 10 to maybe 20% of the base on Superstar may very well of cost 50% of what the top 80-90% cost to produce given the marginal temps they generally had while getting ready for the World Cup vs the GOOD temp windows they used to produce snow for the bulk of their base building

  • ChuckstahChuckstah advanced
    Posts: 283
    World Cup is back at K next two seasons.
    http://mountaintimes.info/world-cup-will-return/
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    SWEET!
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 935
    OK, everybody's been waiting for a "correction" on Wall Street.

    If Kmart can beat Aspen, clearly the market has peaked!   time to sell    :D
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited April 5 Posts: 762
    Here's the announcement at their Summer Kickoff event

Sign In or Register to comment.