Big Squaw summit lift quote

obienickobienick expert
edited April 30 in NELSAP Forum Posts: 971
Per Facebook, their quote is back from SkyTrac. 1375 pph $2.4M including conveyor load for 500 fpm operations. Dimensions look like the current double.

Idk how ski long ski lift quotes are good for, but this certainly gives them a more difinitive goal to shoot for now. And probably opens options for grants.

Comments

  • sugarloafsugarloaf expert
    Posts: 777
    Is that for another double chair?

    Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.

  • bobbuttsbobbutts advanced
    edited April 30 Posts: 108
    Estimated from Google Earth:
    Base Elevation: 1500'
    Summit Elevation: 2925'
    Vertical Rise: 1425'
    Length: 5900'
    Ride Time: 12 min (500fpm)

    Roughly the same numbers as Sunapee Express except nearly 2x the ride time.

  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    edited May 1 Posts: 1,583
    Good to see their at least looking into it seriously, will it beat Tenny?


    Any used ones in good shape that will work?

    Are existing roughly 50 yr old towers shot?

    Would love to see this view someday

    Better than Gunstock in its prime?( I mean the lake view)

    image<
    http://www.nelsap.org/me/squaw.html


    http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/Maine/squawmtn/uppermtn.php

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  • RemskiRemski advanced
    Posts: 371
    And the trails are a lot more interesting than Gunstock.
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited May 1 Posts: 971
    This is for a new fixed grip quad to replace the summit (Thompson) double, a 1967 Stadeli, with ~10 second chair spacing to keep capacity down. There is nothing used on the market long enough.  They have publicly said so.

    The old Ascutney triple could possibly have worked (especially if one or both of the novice triples was also used for additional towers), but that was gobbled up by Pats Peak before ever getting on an internet market.  

    They have said bringing the double up to code is not cost effective. I believe several of the footings are spalling with exposed rebar, including the return terminal. The lift had previously had a grip failure and hasn't run since that fateful day in 2004.  I'm guessing ME Board of Elevator and Tramway Safety may have required all new grips. That would need to be custom made as I doubt there is a supply line for 50-year-old grips from a smaller defunct manufacturer.

    As sad as it is to lose a classic lift, and as well-built Stadelis are, this is one lift that must go.  It wasn't in good shape back in '98. And I imagine 13 years of no use have put a massive toll on the state of the lift.

    Here are some specs from the quote (published by FOBS on Facebook):  Interesting that the return terminal requires 240V 3 phase. Is this standard?

    image
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,583
    Thanks Obie
    How much did friends raise in last few years to open and get bombardier and triple open?

    May take a few yrs , will they borrow/ loan, etc?

    Is everything else paid for so far?

    Is there snowmaking? Lower and upper or is that shot
  • newpylongnewpylong expert
    edited May 1 Posts: 582
    The 240 is usually not required for the lift non-drive side. They usually only run 120 for the operators hut. Perhaps they wanted to run it for something else. Fan guns require 480 though.
  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 850

    Kid, I'd say the view from Squaw is better than the view from Gunstock - I've seen both, but more than 40 years ago - because it's all wilderness and Mt. Katahdin is quite prominent in the view. Squaw Mt. is beautiful itself, with a much bigger extent of conifer forest than mountains further south.  https://skimap.org/data/457/2200/1443634968.jpeg 

    They could make that chairlift more than a thousand feet shorter if they tucked the bottom terminal down in the gully just below where the Penobscot and Moose River trails join. They would only lose some flat runout, and it would be accessible from the triple. But they probably want to use the upper parking lots, and the upper lodge if they can come up with another $500,000 to restore the lodge! And the parking lots, which look overgrown in the aerial photos.

    They have snowmaking on the Triple chair area, but didn't need it this year! I think the upper mountain would do better than Mad River Glen without snowmaking. They announced on their Facebook page that they sold 8,200 tickets this year, which they were pleased with. I wish them luck.

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,864
    Weighing in, I think both are great lake views, but I prefered Gunstock.
  • Posts: 986
    Any ideas the make of Squaw's t and if it is operational.

    A shame that it's less expensive to replace the Städeli with a modern quad versus a refurbish/bringing it up to code. I can understand why, though. A1967 install was a long time ago and Städeli is long-defunct as a manufacturer.

    Unfortunately nothing in this world lasts.

    IBRAKE
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    edited May 1 Posts: 1,583

    Any ideas the make of Squaw's t and if it is operational.

    A shame that it's less expensive to replace the Städeli with a modern quad versus a refurbish/bringing it up to code. I can understand why, though. A1967 install was a long time ago and Städeli is long-defunct as a manufacturer.

    Unfortunately nothing in this world lasts.

    IBRAKE

    What else but your favorite Ibrake4tbars Hall T-bar of course unfortunately no operational
    Actually New England ski history is showing 23 bars both HALL to lower one or the novice one may still be standing I don't know somebody else

    http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/viewlift.php?id=222

    http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/viewlift.php?id=181

    Thanks for all the information map that I have seen the view of the lake at gunstock but not in person of course at squaw so I will let you and Joshua fight it out for the best Lakeview
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited May 1 Posts: 971
    With respect to the T-bar, I don't think even any towers remain. The drive building was torn down a couple years ago.

    I don't think a new quad less expensive, but it's simply not cost effective to spend money on the old double.  

    Think about it this way, you get a car wreck: the damage is $5000 to fix, but the blue book value is $4000. The insurance 'totals' the car and you must buy a new one.  Despite the damaged car still being fixable, it's not economically feasible to pour more money at something than its worth in whole or parts.

    The double has been unmaintained (except for a short futile attempt by Confalone to bring it back, check out the album from probably 5 or so years ago by Green Mountain Control Systems on Facebook) for 13 years and had questionable at best maintenance prior.  WV's Stadeli's are going strong which shows how good lifts they are, but the Thompson Double is in a harsher environment with ownership constantly struggling for money and/or vacant down in FL.

    With respect to fundraising, they did fundraise for their first groomer. They did a down payment, then took a loan to get it, and used further fundraising to pay off that loan. It was around $100k.  They are doing the same technique for getting their 2nd groomer.  They fundraised ~$30k to get used fan snowguns from Platekill and to bring the pump(s) and electrical on one trail back to life. Some electrical labor was donated by the local power company IIRC (which to be honest is a smart investment as if you fix their power, they'll be able to buy it from you).   Labor and materials for the lower lodge renovation were all donated IIRC.

    I think I've read this summer's plan is to get a 2nd trail online with snowmaking and to fully clear brush on Penobscot and Moose River.

    FWIW, they were very pleased they got fully out of all debt this recent winter.  It shows how much the community cares for the ski area. And it makes me wonder what Big Squaw could have been with more motivated or backed ownership.

    What is interesting is that they have said they can fully pay off the downpayment on the quad if they sell the double's chairs.
    No wonder it is so popular for ski areas to sell chairs now ... free downpayments!  Problem is $2.4M at 4% for 30 years is $11.5k/mo. Pretty steep.

    If Greek Peak in NY can get USDA rural development loans, Big Squaw should be able to do so as well. That's up to $300k grant and/or $1M/10-yr loan at 0% with at lest 20% matching from a 3rd party (like the State or County). That means it could be as little as $600k for them to get themselves or through a 4th source.
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,583
    Ok to further ramp up a debate, for anyone(Mapnut?) who has skied the east branch of the Penobscot at 2.5 miles and intermediate rated compared to the same length Polecat at Wildcat. I felt the Pole almost qualified as an easy blue in places. Mt Washington views or Moosehead Lake views best?
    A fair comparison?

    I don't think too many here skied Squaw in its "prime".
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,864
    ciscokid said:

    Ok to further ramp up a debate, for anyone(Mapnut?) who has skied the east branch of the Penobscot at 2.5 miles and intermediate rated compared to the same length Polecat at Wildcat. I felt the Pole almost qualified as an easy blue in places. Mt Washington views or Moosehead Lake views best?
    A fair comparison?

    I don't think too many here skied Squaw in its "prime".

    I was there once in 1976.  The only trail I specifically remember is St. Croix.  I do not recall anything "scary steep".  I do not remember too many specifics other than the view.
  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 850

    Right, Joshua, up until 1976 none of their black diamonds were very steep.  I skied them all and I was far from expert. St. Croix was an addition around 1972 and it was "pleasantly steep" in the middle section. The upper liftline and the Seboomook were added after the last time I skied there, and I've heard it said that they were a real challenge, for maybe 500 vertical feet.

    East Branch Penobscot was a very nice easy run and I skied it every time I went. It would have been rated green except that you had to ski a blue, the steepest part of Penobscot, to get to it. Pretty and narrow among spruce trees, it didn't have views like Penobscot and the other upper trails did. The "2.5 miles" is a real whopper; it couldn't have been more than 2 top to bottom and the trail itself is about 1 mile (scaled off mapper.acme.com). 

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,864
    Lift ticket from 1976.  It was a rainy day and the ticket shows the wear-and-tear.
    squawME.JPG
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  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    edited May 2 Posts: 1,583
    Vivid delightful detailed memories !
    Thank you Joshua and Map
  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited May 2 Posts: 1,795

    I missed it in it's prime, skiing it 2/18/2010 when the T-bar was still standing. It also wasn't a very good view that day either. Upper mountain was in the clouds most of the time and we could see only perhaps half the lake. But either pre or apres skiing from the hotel south on Rt 6 we could see more. So I'm going to rate the view from Gunstock & Big Squaw comparable from my limited experience. However the skiing if the upper mtn was open has to go hands down to Big Squaw.

    Polecat = Killington Green with a great view, which is why I love it. It can be dangerous spring skiing when I'm looking at the view instead of where I am going!

    It's too bad the T-bar had to come down. The first pic you can just make out the T-bar line on the right. You can see a few T's still on it. I didn't get any good pics of it. I skied the line twice using the remnants of the T's still hanging as slalom gates. Some were frozen into the snow. 

    imageimageimage
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
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  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 850

    Let me see if this shows up right: a recent shot on East Branch which was cleared and groomed this year. A bit of a view here. https://www.facebook.com/FriendsofSquaw/photos/rpp.137714546384371/821272688028550/?type=3&theater


  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    edited May 2 Posts: 1,583
    For some reason I thought thatchairlift Derailmeant was after I was on board here on snow journal which I started October 2006 but new England ski history says 2004 .yes I do remember your report vaguely ski it

    Being I am no longer in my prime ski conditions of yesteryear I would look forward to a nice mellow tree-lined spruce trees run down the mountain and also the intermediate Penobscot run with views I think the views are amazing at squaw and if it was sell Hannah's favorite trail when he designed it it should be a beautiful run of course on a bluebird day with fresh powder image


    It said that the trains came down from Montreal so it must have been quite a beautiful ski area to attract Canadians with all the options they have up there in their neck of the woods
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  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,583

    Lift ticket from 1976.  It was a rainy day and the ticket shows the wear-and-tear.

    I'm impressed! See Josh there is evidence in pics, especially 40 yr old. Well done!
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