Categories of Ski Areas

135

Comments

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717
    I arbitrarily added RI.  Let's do CT next...

    Feeder Areas
    MA
    - Blandford
    - Blue Hills
    - Bradford
    - Nashoba Valley
    - Otis Ridge
    - Ward
    ME
    - Big Squaw
    - Hermon Mountain
    - Mount Jefferson
    - Lonesome Pine Trails
    - Lost Valley
    - Titcomb Mountain
    NH
    - Campton
    - Granite Gorge
    - King Pine
    - McIntyre
    - Storrs Hill
    - Whaleback
    RI
    - Yagoo

    Regional Ski Area
    MA
    - Berkshire East
    - Bousquet
    - Butternut
    - Catamount
    - Wachusett
    ME
    - Mount Abram
    - Big Rock
    - Black Mountain
    - Camden Snow Bowl
    NH
    - Black Mountain
    - Crotched
    - Dartmouth
    - Pat's Peak
    - Ragged Mountain

    Regional Resorts
    MA:
    - Jiminy
    ME
    - Shawnee Peak
    NH
    - Cranmore
    - Gunstock
    - Mount Sunapee

    Large Ski Areas
    MA: None
    ME: None
    NH
    - Wildcat

    Destination Resorts
    MA: None
    ME
    - Sugarloaf
    - Sunday River
    NH
    - Attitash
    - Bretton Woods
    - Cannon
    - Loon
    - Waterville Valley
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 666

    I think the vertical requirement for destination is not needed. Look at Holiday Valley or any of a number of those WNY areas, Seven Springs, PA, or places in the midwest- people have second homes/condos on or near the mountain, and they do big multi-day vacation business, not just daytrippers. Jiminy is MA's only true destination resort, a la others nearby (Mt. Snow, Stratton), just smaller ski area.

    We'll get to NY and PA.  Holiday Valley will be an interesting argument when we get there.  For now we've done MA, NH and ME.


    For now, if the area doesn't have 1500' of vertical, we're not letting them into the "destination resort category".
    I guess it depends on where the tourists are from, rather than the resort. HV (and Jiminy) get plenty of long-term-stay vacationers (an alternative way of looking at 'destination') from relative proximity, rather than from different time zones. If that is the real defining difference between destination and regional ski resort, then so be it.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717

    I think the vertical requirement for destination is not needed. Look at Holiday Valley or any of a number of those WNY areas, Seven Springs, PA, or places in the midwest- people have second homes/condos on or near the mountain, and they do big multi-day vacation business, not just daytrippers. Jiminy is MA's only true destination resort, a la others nearby (Mt. Snow, Stratton), just smaller ski area.

    We'll get to NY and PA.  Holiday Valley will be an interesting argument when we get there.  For now we've done MA, NH and ME.


    For now, if the area doesn't have 1500' of vertical, we're not letting them into the "destination resort category".
    I guess it depends on where the tourists are from, rather than the resort. HV (and Jiminy) get plenty of long-term-stay vacationers (an alternative way of looking at 'destination') from relative proximity, rather than from different time zones. If that is the real defining difference between destination and regional ski resort, then so be it.
    I agree with you, but I knew this would happen!  No matter how nice Holiday Valley is, the skiing is not in the same league with the areas that we're designating as "destination resorts" in NH and ME.  There are any number of small places in PA that are destination resorts for the DC crowd, but regional for those for whom they are not the closest to them mileage-wise.
  • z1000307470z1000307470 intermediate
    Posts: 85
    Jiminy is not a destination ski resort. There is just not enough skiing. The housing around Jiminy has to do with the location close to metro areas.
  • Posts: 1,927
    Connecticut is easy! The only one that I could see being argued is Mohawk. I only put it in the regional areas category because it's the largest in CT and is close to NYC.

    Private Areas:
    - Lakeridge

    Local Ski Tows
    *none*

    Feeder Areas
    - Powder Ridge
    - Mount Southington
    - Sundown
    - Woodbury

    Regional Ski Areas
    - Mohawk

    Regional Ski Resorts
    *none*

    Large Ski Areas
    *none*

    Destination Resorts
    *none*
    - Sam
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717

    Connecticut is easy! The only one that I could see being argued is Mohawk. I only put it in the regional areas category because it's the largest in CT and is close to NYC.

    Private Areas:
    - Lakeridge

    Local Ski Tows
    *none*

    Feeder Areas
    - Powder Ridge
    - Mount Southington
    - Sundown
    - Woodbury

    Regional Ski Areas
    - Mohawk

    Regional Ski Resorts
    *none*

    Large Ski Areas
    *none*

    Destination Resorts
    *none*

    I'd put Sundown as a Regional Area and maybe Powder Ridge too.  Other inputs?
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717

    Jiminy is not a destination ski resort. There is just not enough skiing. The housing around Jiminy has to do with the location close to metro areas.

    I think they put in a boat-load of timeshares in the base area.
  • z1000307470z1000307470 intermediate
    Posts: 85

    Jiminy is not a destination ski resort. There is just not enough skiing. The housing around Jiminy has to do with the location close to metro areas.

    I think they put in a boat-load of timeshares in the base area.
    The Berkshires have a lot more visits in the summer vs the winter. I am sure the Jiminy base is a profitable, year around rental program.
  • edited June 7 Posts: 1,927

    Connecticut is easy! The only one that I could see being argued is Mohawk. I only put it in the regional areas category because it's the largest in CT and is close to NYC.

    Private Areas:
    - Lakeridge

    Local Ski Tows
    *none*

    Feeder Areas
    - Powder Ridge
    - Mount Southington
    - Sundown
    - Woodbury

    Regional Ski Areas
    - Mohawk

    Regional Ski Resorts
    *none*

    Large Ski Areas
    *none*

    Destination Resorts
    *none*

    I'd put Sundown as a Regional Area and maybe Powder Ridge too.  Other inputs?

    I can see what you mean about Sundown, but having talked to skiers in the area, I would not consider Powder Ridge in the regional category.
    - Sam
  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 781
    I almost feel that Mohawk is more of a feeder area, literally, than Sundown because of their beginners' programs. I took two of my kids there for their first lesson before taking them up north. Sundown has some expert terrain and a big terrain park and appeals to young adults.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited June 7 Posts: 1,061
    joshua_segal said: NewEnglandSkier13 said:


    I'd put Sundown as a Regional Area and maybe Powder Ridge too.  Other inputs?

    In the same category as Gunstock and Sunapee?  I know people who drive to and ski at these places, availing themselves of nearby B & Bs or rentals or whatever.  Both are more than twice as far as the Connecticut areas under discussion.  I don't know anybody in New Jersey who actively seeks out Connecticut ski areas; they can get better hills in the Poconos for heaven sakes.  I don't know many people around here who have even
    heard of those places.

    Further proof:   Swiftskier never argued about the view from the top of Powder Ridge! 

    You can't put Ski Rundown in the same category as Gunstock or -- for the love of Hannes Schneider -- Cranmore!


    :x :\"> :x :-O X_X X_X [-X
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,061
    I just love those icons  ;)
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717

    I just love those icons  ;)

    I think you mixed up "regional Ski Area" vs "Regional Resort".

    I was putting it in the same category as Pat's Peak - not Sunapee.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,061
    Ack!  My bad!   :-O :-O X_X :-O X_X :-O X_X
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717
    Best for last to finish off New England: VT
    Also looking for arguments on the categorization of the areas in other 5 New England ski areas below:

    Feeder Areas
    CT
    - Powder Ridge
    - Mount Southington
    - Woodbury
    MA
    - Blandford
    - Blue Hills
    - Bradford
    - Nashoba Valley
    - Otis Ridge
    - Ward
    ME
    - Big Squaw
    - Hermon Mountain
    - Mount Jefferson
    - Lonesome Pine Trails
    - Lost Valley
    - Titcomb Mountain
    NH
    - Campton
    - Granite Gorge
    - King Pine
    - McIntyre
    - Storrs Hill
    - Whaleback
    RI
    - Yagoo

    Regional Ski Area
    CT
    - Mohawk
    - Sundown
    MA
    - Berkshire East
    - Bousquet
    - Butternut
    - Catamount
    - Wachusett
    ME
    - Mount Abram
    - Big Rock
    - Black Mountain
    - Camden Snow Bowl
    NH
    - Black Mountain
    - Crotched
    - Dartmouth
    - Pat's Peak
    - Ragged Mountain
    RI: None

    Regional Resorts
    CT: none
    MA:
    - Jiminy
    ME
    - Shawnee Peak
    NH
    - Cranmore
    - Gunstock
    - Mount Sunapee
    RI: None

    Large Ski Areas
    CT: none
    MA: None
    ME: None
    NH
    - Wildcat
    RI: None

    Destination Resorts
    CT: None
    MA: None
    ME
    - Sugarloaf
    - Sunday River
    NH
    - Attitash
    - Bretton Woods
    - Cannon
    - Loon
    - Waterville Valley
    RI: None

  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    edited June 8 Posts: 666
    VT:

    Destination:
    Jay
    Stowe
    Smuggs
    Sugarbush
    Killington
    Okemo
    Stratton
    Mt. Snow


    That was the easy part.

    LSA:
    MRG

    Regional Resort:
    Burke
    Bolton
    Bromley
    Suicide Six

    RSA:
    Middlebury
    Magic

    Feeder:
    Cochran's
    NE Slopes
    Quechee
    Ascutney (what's left of it)




  • NJSkiNJSki advanced
    Posts: 269

    VT:


    Destination:
    Jay
    Stowe
    Sugarbush
    Killington
    Okemo
    Stratton
    Mt. Snow

    That was the easy part.

    LSA:
    MRG

    Regional Resort:
    Burke
    Bolton
    Bromley
    Suicide Six

    RSA:
    Middlebury
    Magic

    Feeder:
    Cochran's
    NE Slopes
    Quechee
    Ascutney (what's left of it)




    No love for Pico?
  • slathamslatham advanced
    edited June 7 Posts: 121
    I think Magic is a Large Ski Area given 1,500' vert, which should probably be the cutoff. On the edge but it breaks the tie by including off map terrain.

    Pico is obviously a LSA.

    Burke too is "large". If it has enough lodging to be a resort I'd say it's a destination resort, though borderline.

    While Bolton is close on stats, I agree it's a Regional Resort. Bromley is probably the clearest VT Regional Resort.

    I presume Sucide Six is a "resort" due to Woodstock Inn?

  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 666
    I consider it part of Killington like Mt Ellen is part of Sugarbush. Your call.

    Yes on S6


  • edited June 7 Posts: 1,927
    Alright here's my VT list. This is probably the most controversial state. Anything with 2,000'+ vertical should at least make the large ski area category.

    Private Areas
    - Chapman Hill
    - Cosmic Hill
    - Gebbie's Farm
    - Grill Hill
    - Hermitage Club
    - Hitching Post
    - Pine Mountain
    - Plymouth Notch
    - Vermont Acedemy
    - Vermont Tech

    Local Ski Tows
    - Ascutney
    - Bellows Falls
    - Hard'Ack
    - Harrington Hill
    - Living Memorial

    Feeder Areas
    - Cochran's
    - Lyndon
    - Northeast Slopes
    - Quechee
    - Suicide Six

    Regional Ski Areas
    - Magic Mountain
    - Middlebury Snowbowl

    Regional Ski Resorts
    - Bromely

    Large Ski Areas
    - Bolton Valley
    - Burke
    - Mad River Glen
    - Pico

    Destination Resorts
    - Jay Peak
    - Killington
    - Okemo
    - Smugglers' Notch
    - Mount Snow
    - Stowe
    - Stratton
    - Sugarbush
    - Sam
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,717
    An initial look at Sam (NES13)'s list:

    OK on the private areas

    OK on the Local Ski tows

    I would suggest Lyndon and Northeast Slopes as "local areas".

    OK on Regional Ski areas

    OK on Regional Resorts

    Burke Mtn. I see on the cusp between Large Ski Area and Destination Resort

    To lotsoskiing: Sugarbush and Mt. Ellen are connected by a lift!  Pico and Killington are still separate areas.

    To slatham: I think that King Pine and Suicide Six are in a category of Hotel/Resort with skiing as an amenity, but since we didn't make that category, I think they both fit as feeder areas.

    More comments or inputs?

    I assume that for NJ, Mtn. Creek is a Regional Ski Area
    Hidden Valley if it exists, I think is private
    Campgaw is a feeder.

    Any more NJ?
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 666
    I hear you on the lift issue vis a vis Pico. Either way, marketed on Kllington site and webcams so I assumed under same umbrella.

    Hidden Valley is now National Winter Activity Center and is technically private

    Agreed on NES and Lyndon. More local tows than feeders. I forgot that category in my original stab.
  • teighsteighs intermediate
    Posts: 64
    If you change the definition of resort to ski in and ski out than I would agree with NES13's list, but looking at the original definitions, due to proximity to ski specific housing, Pico is less than 30 minutes from Killington's housing stock with a shuttle bus every 60 minutes, and MRG is less than 30 minutes from Sugarbush making them Destination Resorts.  Magic is less than 30 minutes from Stratton's housing stock making it a Regional Resort.

    Bolton has significant on mountain housing, so it should be a Resort, though in my mind more Regional even though it's elevation qualifies it as Destination 
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,061
    NJ:  Mt Creek is a regional resort, lots of beds does brisk business w/NYC people as Newman has mentioned in recent thread

    VT:  S6 is a much different animal than the other four in that category
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    edited June 8 Posts: 1,717

    NJ:  Mt Creek is a regional resort, lots of beds does brisk business w/NYC people as Newman has mentioned in recent thread


    VT:  S6 is a much different animal than the other four in that category
    Suicide Six and King Pine, I think are in the same category.  Should I add resort with skiing as an amenity?  The Balsams would have fit into that category too.  Perhaps also the Hermitage.

    Do others agree on Mt. Creek as a Regional Resort vs. Regional Ski Area?

    Any more VT or NJ inputs?
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited June 8 Posts: 1,061
    if it walks like a resort, quacks like a resort...

    image
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,061
    It's a resort.

    image
    image

    imageimage



  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 781
    But that hotel has nobody in it.
  • slathamslatham advanced
    Posts: 121
    Picture worth a thousand words. To mapnuts point, I think we have to look at intentions vs. successes.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited June 8 Posts: 1,061
    the hotel, condos, etc. all get plenty of bodies.   it's the storefronts / shops that are vacant

    hey if you don't want to call it a resort it doesn't matter to me, I'm not a stockholder.  Your list will have other errors I'm sure. 

    ;)
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