Area Expansions, Reductions and Plans Gone Awry

joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
in NELSAP Forum Posts: 1,857
There is a recent active thread, titled, "Largest cancelled expansions",  http://www.snowjournal.com/discussion/1508/largest-cancelled-expansions#latest, that I don't want to hijack, so I'm opening a new thread:

Based purely on that thread's title, a pretty complete answer can be found in:

However, based on the content of the opening: "Are there any other planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added a greater percentage of existing vert to a ski area in NE? Not trail count, just top-to-bottom drop."

So in this thread, I'd like to have 3-categories:
1. Operating areas that added a pod of trails, but have yet to install a lift to service the pod.  e.g. BMOM.
2. Operating areas that shut down an upper lift that continued to operate on Lower lifts that served at least 20% less vertical. e.g. Arrowhead (E.g. Squaw, ME - though not Ramshead at Killington or Spruce at Stowe.  We've had a thread on pods once served by lifts that were replaced with lifts that served less vertical than the one it replaced.)
3. The 3rd category is close to the original one: planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added at least 30% more vertical to an existing ski area. (e.g. Temple Mtn. from 600 to 1000; but not Dorset or Bigelow that were never built.)

I will summarize your inputs.  What do you have?

Comments

  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,146
    Ascutney fits #2, yes?   Similar to Squaw
  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 850

    Sugarloaf's Brackett Basin might count as a #1, an added "trail" pod that has yet to install a lift. There's talk about installing a T-bar; I think that might just be a return lift to the King Pine chair. 

  • ChuckstahChuckstah advanced
    Posts: 363
    Brackett will be served by a snow cat this coming season.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    edited December 1 Posts: 1,857
    Summary to date based on comments here and from the previous thread from which I spun off this thread:

    Pod is cut, but no lift is installed:
    ME
    Black Mtn. pod to right - anybody know its name?
    Sugarloaf: Brackett Basin
    NH
    Tenney Mtn.

    Operating areas that shut down an upper lift that continued to operate on Lower lifts that served at least 20% less vertical:
    ME
    Squaw - entire upper mtn.
    NH
    Arrowhead - entire upper mtn.
    NY
    North Creek Ski Bowl (now incorporated into Gore)
    RI
    Snow Valley - operated on lower T-Bar for a season or two after its chairlift was repossessed
    VT
    Ascutney - upper lifts gone

    Planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added at least 30% more vertical to an existing ski area:
    NH
    Temple Mtn.: 600 to 1000': Area east of quad that was used as an XC area
    NY
    Petersburg Pass who cut trails down into the Valley to the west that would have increased the vertical from about 800 to 1600 vertical.
    Marble Mtn. that was nominally 2850' vertical but only had lifts servicing 850' vertical before going under.

  • mapnutmapnut expert
    Posts: 850
    Not exactly a #1 and not exactly a #3, but at Greek Peak in New York, the East Peak chairlift had a liftline extension cleared above the top terminal. Pretty flat, but it would have added about 100 vertical feet and provided access to a nice advanced run on the eastern exposure that hasn't been cut. Appears to be pretty grown-in now.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,857
    mapnut said:

    Not exactly a #1 and not exactly a #3, but at Greek Peak in New York, the East Peak chairlift had a liftline extension cleared above the top terminal. Pretty flat, but it would have added about 100 vertical feet and provided access to a nice advanced run on the eastern exposure that hasn't been cut. Appears to be pretty grown-in now.

    100 vertical is at most 15% of Greek Peak and I suspect it is more in the category of areas that have trail one can climb to above the exit from a lift, such as Upper Nose Dive at Stowe or the Snowfields above the top of the Kennebago at Saddleback.  Pretty sure we had a thread on these fairly recently.
  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 216
    Marble's vertical can be measured in few different ways - but there were a few upper rope tows, so the 850' is too low. Something more like 1150' of the 2850' was lift served. But sno-cats took skiers to the upper section too, which is an organized "lift" of some kind. It's a gray area.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,857
    NELSAP said:

    Marble's vertical can be measured in few different ways - but there were a few upper rope tows, so the 850' is too low. Something more like 1150' of the 2850' was lift served. But sno-cats took skiers to the upper section too, which is an organized "lift" of some kind. It's a gray area.

    I nixed the cat service in Bracket Basin too in the summary above.  Somewhat arbitrary.on my part.
  • Posts: 2,056
    Don't know where it fits in, but a base to summit gondola line at Saddleback was cut.
    - Sam
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 823

    Summary to date based on comments here and from the previous thread from which I spun off this thread:

    Pod is cut, but no lift is installed:
    ME
    Black Mtn. pod to right - anybody know its name?
    Sugarloaf: Brackett Basin
    NH
    Tenney Mtn.

    Operating areas that shut down an upper lift that continued to operate on Lower lifts that served at least 20% less vertical:
    ME
    Squaw - entire upper mtn.
    NH
    Arrowhead - entire upper mtn.
    NY
    North Creek Ski Bowl (now incorporated into Gore)
    RI
    Snow Valley - operated on lower T-Bar for a season or two after its chairlift was repossessed
    VT
    Ascutney - upper lifts gone

    Planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added at least 30% more vertical to an existing ski area:
    NH
    Temple Mtn.: 600 to 1000': Area east of quad that was used as an XC area
    NY
    Petersburg Pass who cut trails down into the Valley to the west that would have increased the vertical from about 800 to 1600 vertical.
    Marble Mtn. that was nominally 2850' vertical but only had lifts servicing 850' vertical before going under.

    Berkshire Snow Basin was the expansion that started this whole exercise. Would have nearly doubled vertical and lift line/trail was cut.
  • ChuckstahChuckstah advanced
    Posts: 363
    Ragged has cut a new pod Pinacle, and not installed a lift.
  • Bill29Bill29 advanced
    Posts: 253
    Dorset Hollow, Vt. Developers in the 1980s were said to be planning a
    very big ski area and resort with a 3,000-foot vertical, a couple of
    chairs, maybe a tram, a golf course and lots of other stuff. Strong
    local opposition caused the proposed developers to drop those plans.

    I have it on good authority that I posted this under the wrong topic heading. So I moved it over here. I try to be flexible and cooperative.
  • JAM614JAM614 intermediate
    Posts: 22

    BMOM's additional 200' vertical provides access to freshly destumped and graded backcountry trails. At this time there are no concrete plans to install a lift. Easy 10 minute hike. Many locals hope it remains this way.  It's referred to as the Bagaduce or the East Bowl.  The Angry Beavers have been busy working in the East Bowl and there's an established traverse just below the summit triple that serves (4) glades off from it for this season. Two of these glades (The Wild and The East Branch) are 800' vertical and offer up some of the best glade skiing at BMOM. In total there are (5) new glades at BMOM and many improvements to existing glades for the 2017-2018 ski season, bringing the total count to 25 plus, all accessed off from one lift.  Still a great deal at $29 Fridays and $37 weekend rates.

     

    Summary to date based on comments here and from the previous thread from which I spun off this thread:

    Pod is cut, but no lift is installed:
    ME
    Black Mtn. pod to right - anybody know its name?
    Sugarloaf: Brackett Basin
    NH
    Tenney Mtn.

    Operating areas that shut down an upper lift that continued to operate on Lower lifts that served at least 20% less vertical:
    ME
    Squaw - entire upper mtn.
    NH
    Arrowhead - entire upper mtn.
    NY
    North Creek Ski Bowl (now incorporated into Gore)
    RI
    Snow Valley - operated on lower T-Bar for a season or two after its chairlift was repossessed
    VT
    Ascutney - upper lifts gone

    Planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added at least 30% more vertical to an existing ski area:
    NH
    Temple Mtn.: 600 to 1000': Area east of quad that was used as an XC area
    NY
    Petersburg Pass who cut trails down into the Valley to the west that would have increased the vertical from about 800 to 1600 vertical.
    Marble Mtn. that was nominally 2850' vertical but only had lifts servicing 850' vertical before going under.
  • jaytremjaytrem intermediate
    Posts: 74
    Probably about 50 years ago Sugarbush cut a lift line above Inverness.  Can still make it out on Google.  I skied it in the late 80s.  Top part was nice, but eventually turned into closely bunched evergreens.
  • slathamslatham advanced
    Posts: 156
    jaytrem said:

    Probably about 50 years ago Sugarbush cut a lift line above Inverness.  Can still make it out on Google.  I skied it in the late 80s.  Top part was nice, but eventually turned into closely bunched evergreens.



    Ha,I was going to mention that too. A bit dated and overgrown but it was there.


  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,857
    jaytrem said:

    Probably about 50 years ago Sugarbush cut a lift line above Inverness.  Can still make it out on Google.  I skied it in the late 80s.  Top part was nice, but eventually turned into closely bunched evergreens.

    I think it was Glen Ellen at the time. I remember that too, but I erroneously thought that a lift was evevntually put in there.
  • TomWhiteTomWhite advanced
    Posts: 493

    jaytrem said:

    Probably about 50 years ago Sugarbush cut a lift line above Inverness.  Can still make it out on Google.  I skied it in the late 80s.  Top part was nice, but eventually turned into closely bunched evergreens.

    I think it was Glen Ellen at the time. I remember that too, but I erroneously thought that a lift was evevntually put in there.
    It was Glen Ellen then. My 1969 ski atlas sketch of the mountain shows the expansion. No lift was built.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,857

    Don't know where it fits in, but a base to summit gondola line at Saddleback was cut.

    I suspect not, because there are no trails that would have been serviced by that gondola that are not accessible from the Kennebago.  The line shows up even though it fully grew in because of the different species and size of the trees that grew in what was the lift line.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    edited December 5 Posts: 1,857
    2nd Summary:

    Pod is cut, but no lift is installed:
    ME
    Black Mtn.  East Bowl - some want to keep it liftless
    Sugarloaf: Brackett Basin
    NH
    Ragged: Pinnacle Mtn.
    Tenney Mtn.
    VT
    Glen Ellen: area above Inverness.

    Operating areas that shut down an upper lift that continued to operate on Lower lifts that served at least 20% less vertical:
    ME
    Squaw - entire upper mtn.
    NH
    Arrowhead - entire upper mtn.
    NY
    North Creek Ski Bowl (now incorporated into Gore)
    RI
    Snow Valley - operated on lower T-Bar for a season or two after its chairlift was repossessed
    VT
    Ascutney - upper lifts gone

    Planned expansions that didn't happen that would have added at least 30% more vertical to an existing ski area:
    MA
    Berkshire Snow Basin: 400 to 900 vert,
    NH
    Temple Mtn.: 600 to 1000': Area east of quad that was used as an XC area
    NY
    Petersburg Pass who cut trails down into the Valley to the west that would have increased the vertical from about 800 to 1600 vertical.
    Marble Mtn. that was nominally 2850' vertical but only had lifts servicing 850' vertical before going under.

  • jaytremjaytrem intermediate
    Posts: 74
    It was Glen Ellen then. My 1969 ski atlas sketch of the mountain shows the expansion. No lift was built.


    The non-existent lift made on to some topo maps too. Stumbled across one in a condo and that's what peaked my interest in skiing it. No internet to use for research back then. Had no clue there was a cut up there but from the right place it very clearly visible at the time.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,857
    Bill29 said:

    Dorset Hollow, Vt. Developers in the 1980s were said to be planning a
    very big ski area and resort with a 3,000-foot vertical, a couple of
    chairs, maybe a tram, a golf course and lots of other stuff. Strong
    local opposition caused the proposed developers to drop those plans.

    I have it on good authority that I posted this under the wrong topic heading. So I moved it over here. I try to be flexible and cooperative.

    There is a pretty complete list of areas that were planned that were never opened on http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/ ; He refers to them as canceled ski areas: 5 in CT; 12 in MA; 1 in RI; 8 in ME; 23 in NH and 9 in VT (including Dorset)
  • teighsteighs intermediate
    Posts: 70
    TomWhite said:

    jaytrem said:

    Probably about 50 years ago Sugarbush cut a lift line above Inverness.  Can still make it out on Google.  I skied it in the late 80s.  Top part was nice, but eventually turned into closely bunched evergreens.

    I think it was Glen Ellen at the time. I remember that too, but I erroneously thought that a lift was evevntually put in there.
    It was Glen Ellen then. My 1969 ski atlas sketch of the mountain shows the expansion. No lift was built.
    Rumor has it, it wasn't entirely on Glen Ellen property/lease, Betsy took exception to it on her lease.
Sign In or Register to comment.