New Bretton Woods Gondola for 2019

JonniJonni intermediate
While part of me is surprised, there's another part of me that isn't. I'm not sure that it's really what the mountain needs, but it will definitely be a flashy lift to take pictures of!

https://liftblog.com/2017/12/14/bretton-woods-plans-new-hampshires-first-8-passenger-gondola/

«1

Comments

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 2,134
    I think BW has the largest collection of the shortest HSQs at any ski area.  They barely need an HSQ, much less a gondola!
  • newmannewman advanced
    Posts: 420
    15 million on a lift for mainly summer and fall business? Is all that money for the lodge cost also, or just the lift? Would be cool for a wedding party and sunset dinners. They used to use the quad to the other lodge for restaurant purposes. A truck was also used for the people who were scared of the chair ride. It was called the TopOQuad restaurant. I've never been to BW. So I ask, will this lift make the skiing better or does it look like its addition won't make much difference?
  • SnowmasterSnowmaster advanced
    Posts: 177
    Goes a little higher up than the Bethlahem chair, but not to the Rosebrook summit. Too short for a gondola, they should have spent this money on expanding past the Tbar with a detachable quad.
  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 368
    That new restaurant will have one of the best views in New England. A base to summit (well near summit) does beat the current two lift rides that are required now.

    A bubble chair may have sufficed otherwise.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,322
    From a skiing-only point of view, this is ludicrous.  

    From a four-season business point of view, it makes perfect sense, albeit at enormous cost.  Biggest winter benefit is they can run night rides up & down for overpriced meals.  I'll bet that part of it becomes a big money maker if they do it right -- super premium everything, .   Big bucks at Vail.  Also better for bicycle stuff, and especially weddings as mentioned.  


  • newmannewman advanced
    Posts: 420
    Stowe added the lights on the gondi (one run and a teaching area) just because they were running it for the Cliff House restaurant to be open for dinners Fri and Sat nights in high season. As far as I know now, both the night skiing and night restaurant (via gondi) are no longer a thing. It will make it better for the 40 mountain bikers a day, that's for sure.
  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 2,116
    Although every time I'm there I think to myself that it'd be so nice to have a lift that goes all the way to the top...
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,322
    They've got to do it right to create a  "dining experience"  

    If they do one of the concrete-and-steel mountain top lodges we know and love at Killington, Jay, Cannon, etc., it ain't gonna work.

    Here's the one at Vail -- currently $115 per person for the gondy up, snowcat ride, dinner.

    image

  • JMaulJMaul advanced
    Posts: 315

    They've got to do it right to create a  "dining experience"  


    If they do one of the concrete-and-steel mountain top lodges we know and love at Killington, Jay, Cannon, etc., it ain't gonna work.

    Here's the one at Vail -- currently $115 per person for the gondy up, snowcat ride, dinner.

    image
    For half that, you can take the Smuggs' Sterling Double up to "Top of the Notch" and enjoy a 3 course meal in a rustic setting then snowshoe down. BYOB and no gondy required.

    I agree with most that this is to broaden year-round activities.
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,322
    JMaul said:



    For half that, you can take the Smuggs' Sterling Double up to "Top of the Notch" and enjoy a 3 course meal in a rustic setting then snowshoe down. BYOB and no gondy required.


    Yeah, no.  This is a different target audience....

     



    image


    image


    image

    gamecreek1.jpg
    655 x 509 - 268K
    gamecreek2.jpg
    446 x 174 - 53K
    gamecreek3.jpg
    600 x 336 - 160K
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 1,102
    Wasn't it 2 trails that were lit at Stowe? I thought it was Gondolier and Perry Merril.

    Would this replace the Bethlehem Quad and the Fabyan Triple or be in addition to them? 36 cabins and 1200 fpm would be 1440 pph, less than the triple or the quad. If the former, they're going to have to do something to increase beginner opportunities as Upper Swoop is far too steep for beginners to access Ben/Big Ben/Bigger Ben, Breton's Wood, and Sawyer's Swoop. If the latter, would this put too many skiers up on the ridge? I've never been to BW on a weekend so I can't comment how crowded it gets with both the Rosebrook Quad and the Fabyan Triple running.


  • ChuckstahChuckstah advanced
    Posts: 426
    Wasn't it 2 trails that were lit at Stowe? I thought it was Gondolier and Perry Merril.

    Would this replace the Bethlehem Quad and the Fabyan Triple or be in addition to them? 36 cabins and 1200 fpm would be 1440 pph, less than the triple or the quad. If the former, they're going to have to do something to increase beginner opportunities as Upper Swoop is far too steep for beginners to access Ben/Big Ben/Bigger Ben, Breton's Wood, and Sawyer's Swoop. If the latter, would this put too many skiers up on the ridge? I've never been to BW on a weekend so I can't comment how crowded it gets with both the Rosebrook Quad and the Fabyan Triple running.

    I believe Stowe just had one run for the night skiing.  I would night ski there 2 or 3 times a year, later season when the first hour or two was daylight allowing turns in the woods and river beds, and other non lighted areas,  for short money on Friday nights on the way up.  As for the BW gondola it is in addition to the current lifts.  It certainly won't hurt business and will hopefully force improvements at the competition.  Rumor from last spring is Loon will be announcing a new replacement gondola soon.  Maybe this will force their hand and make the rumor reality?


  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 2,116
    I haven't been there that many times haute season but I would venture the green ridge runs don't get too crowded as the other skiers take more direct routes. Off Rosebrook, Panorama, although blue is pretty easy after the first 50 yards. But yeah they may have to do some smoothing & widening.
    I seen Fabayan running once but like I said I'm not there that often
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • PeterPeter intermediate
    edited March 30 Posts: 66
    Anyone heard if the gondola is really happening this summer?  Was it even approved?
  • bubblecufferbubblecuffer advanced
    Posts: 301
    Peter said:

    Anyone heard if the gondola is really happening this summer?  Was it even approved?

    I was there last Tuesday skiing with some local folk and nobody knew if it was on or not.  My opinion is that it will happen.
  • tlougeetlougee novice
    Posts: 5
    Gondolas suck.  What a waste.  I agree with Snowmaster.  They should expand up Mt. Stickney like they planned to do years ago.
  • SullySully intermediate
    Posts: 31
    tlougee said:

    Gondolas suck.  What a waste.  I agree with Snowmaster.  They should expand up Mt. Stickney like they planned to do years ago.

    It's not for us skiers. It's for the off-season and specifically weddings. The benefits to the skiing here are just extra.

  • TomWhiteTomWhite expert
    Posts: 579

    Bretton Woods Gondola, Lodge Project Cleared For
    Takeoff

    ·        
    Robert Blechl

    ·        
    Apr 6, 2018 Updated Apr 7, 2018


    BETHLEHEM
    — A new gondola and mountaintop restaurant - a multi-million investment by the
    Bretton Woods Ski Area - is advancing after recently receiving a special
    exception by town zoners and its developers meeting with contractors.

    Under
    the current project schedule, ground is expected to be broken by summer for the
    gondola, Craig Clemmer, marketing director for the Omni Mt. Washington Resort,
    which owns the ski area, said Wednesday.

    “I
    think all of the things are moving in the right direction from our standpoint
    and we’re looking at starting some time in the early summer months and having
    it completed by year’s end, if not a little bit sooner,” he said.

    On that
    schedule, what would be the state’s first eight-passenger gondola would be up
    and running for the 2018-2019 ski season.

    The new
    mountaintop restaurant and lodge, which would host weddings and events and
    replace the existing Latitude 44 restaurant, is expected to be completed later,
    around the summer of 2019.

    On
    March 6, the Bethlehem Zoning Board of Adjustment voted 5-0 to approve a
    special exception for the development, which would also be in Bethlehem and
    Twin Mountain.

    The
    exception is for abutters to the project and will reduce the 30-foot rear
    setback to 15 feet, Jon Warzocha, of Horizons Engineering, said during the
    March ZBA hearing.

    The new
    location of the lodge building will be at the site of the existing ski patrol
    station along the property line of the U.S. Forest Service, he said. The patrol
    station will be removed.

    The
    two-story, wood-frame and heavy timber commercial lodge and restaurant,
    totaling about 11,000 square feet, will include space for functions, a food
    service kitchen, dining areas, a bar, and supporting spaces.

    Planning
    board alternate member and former planning board chairman Don Lavoie called it
    a “dream project” for Bethlehem.

    Presenting
    a conceptual to the Bethlehem Planning Board in December, Chris Ellms, director
    of ski operations for Bretton Woods Ski Area, said financing is still being
    worked out, but he estimated the total cost of the gondola and lodge building
    at about $15 million.

    Clemmer
    said the development team has been having meetings and telephone conferences on
    a weekly basis and will be meeting with contractors during the next week.

    “We are
    still in the planning and permitting phase and the execution phase will come
    right up as soon as we get rid of the snow,” he said.

    The
    work could begin in earnest by the end of June or early July, he said.

    Planned
    for the gondola are nearly 40 cabins, each capable of carrying eight
    passengers, including those dining or attending events.

    The
    lift itself would stretch from the base lodge area to above the current
    Latitude 44 and to the top of the current Fabyan’s Express Triple ski lift.

    In
    addition to getting skiers up the hill faster, the new gondola is also aimed at
    drawing visitors during off-seasons to create what Ellms told planners is for a
    four-season operation.

    The
    project also needs state permits.

  • SullySully intermediate
    Posts: 31
    Somewhat unrelated, but the article mentions this will be NH's first 8-pass gondola. Loon has always had crazy lift lines at their 4-pass and this leads me to wonder if there is a reason Loon has not upgraded. Surely even with the base station being in the lodge they could make it work. The obvious issue I can think of is those old towers still being used.
  • newmannewman advanced
    Posts: 420
    Maybe it would be to many people at once being dropped at the top for the trails to handle
  • TomWhiteTomWhite expert
    Posts: 579
    This has a few new/different details.

    Bretton Woods Plans New Hampshire’s First 8-Passenger Gondola

    December 14, 2017Peter
    Landsman
     Liftblog.com

    Routing of a new gondola planned for Bretton Woods will give
    riders excellent views of the famous Mt. Washington across the way.

    Pending government approval, one of the closest ski resorts to
    Mt. Washington and its famous cog railway will open a 6,000-foot base-to-summit
    gondola in 2018.  Bretton Woods’ director of ski operations Chris Ellms
    appeared before a local planning board last night to unveil plans for the all-season lift and a new summit
    lodge.

    The
    relatively low-capacity gondola will circulate 36 8-passenger cabins, making it
    the largest gondola in the state by cabin size.  Loon
    Mountain’s gondola
    seats only four.  Both the Bethlehem Express quad and Fayban’s Express triple chair will remain in place for
    winter skiers but the 1,300 vertical-foot gondola will spin other seasons as
    well.  Fayban’s top terminal will be moved downhill to make room for the
    gondola station and the new lift will cross over Bethlehem.  Ellms
    said the approximately five minute gondola ride will serve skiers, sightseers,
    hikers, diners and wedding parties.  “What we are proposing is it is not
    all about skiing, it is what the resort is about which is four seasons.” 
    Total project cost for the gondola and new restaurant is approximately $15
    million and Bretton Woods’ owner, Omni Hotels & Resorts, hopes to open the
    new lift next ski season.  The mountain’s current
    fleet
    includes mostly Doppelmayr and Garaventa CTEC lifts, though a
    manufacturer for the new gondola was not named.


  • ADKskierADKskier advanced
    Posts: 319
    if were going to talk about pointless Gondola's I believe Bellearye should be at the top of the lift, I mean list.
    ~Rich~
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 1,134
    They want to have 4-seasons, all-weather access to summit. Skiing impact is clearly secondary
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 1,322
    ADKskier said:

    if were going to talk about pointless Gondola's I believe Bellearye should be at the top of the lift, I mean list.

    For you and I or any avid skier, yes agreed.

    For the average family or mid-level intermediate and novices rolling north, on the other hand, it has elevated Belleayre to a higher level. Perception is reality and they've upped their game for those folks.

    I'm not saying it's best for the region or argue whether the state should be investing yadda yadda yadda. I'm just saying it has moved them above the level of the resorts they were sort of pigeonholed with -- Montage, Elk, Camelback, Shawnee, Mountain Creek, all reasonably similar drive times from say, the Lincoln Tunnel. Mountain Creek, Shawnee & Camelback much closer, but now Belleayre perceived (by the less avid skier) to be clearly a cut above those.




  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 368
    Remember too for Belleayre that the gondola is to allow access for XC skiers to reach a soon to come network of trails on the summit, and for weddings, etc.

    A high speed bubble lift would have been a better option, but I did like skiing it midweek with no lines, as it gave faster access to that part of the ridge and the ability to ski some of the easier trails as run outs without the awfully slow double ride back up.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited April 13 Posts: 1,322
    NELSAP said:

    Remember too for Belleayre that the gondola is to allow access for XC skiers to reach a soon to come network of trails on the summit, and for weddings, etc.

    A high speed bubble lift would have been a better option, but I did like skiing it midweek with no lines, as it gave faster access to that part of the ridge and the ability to ski some of the easier trails as run outs without the awfully slow double ride back up.

    We discussed in another thread how the Belleayre gondy is more for summer stuff and whatnot as you said.  I suggest same with Bretton Woods.  I don't think it will have the same impact on BW skiing as the perceived upgrade at Belleayre ski.

    Aside from the XC, which is not yet much of anything at Belleayre, curious why you think a bubble is better for year-round vs gondy.  I'm thinking particularly if you ever want mountain top dining mid-winter like Vail or Steamboat.  Also weddings, although it might be easier to ship grandma to the top on a chair vs a moving gondy

  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 368
    I'm just not a big fan of taking my skis off and on every run :)
  • trackbikertrackbiker advanced
    Posts: 139
    NELSAP said:

    I'm just not a big fan of taking my skis off and on every run :)

    Maybe we should petition them for a chondola. That would solve the skis and the grandma problem.
    :)]
  • CannonballCannonball advanced
    Posts: 242
    NELSAP said:

    I'm just not a big fan of taking my skis off and on every run :)

    As a snowboarder it took me a long time to figure out why people always seem to hate trams and gondolas. I like them alot!  Then a few years ago the light dawned that the primary reason is exactly what you said.  Totally understandable. 
Sign In or Register to comment.