Rating the 2017-2018 Season Versus the Last 11 Years

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  • 4aprice said:

    If you notice your kids' report cards, obviously schools don't agree.  I don't know what they do now,  but when I was a kid, we got report cards every 5-weeks.

    Every parent can check their kids' grades on some kind of online grading program like Powerschool or Infinite Campus, so we can rate away-- usually grades are updated every week or so. 

    Been a really, really good March-- no doubt about that. The fifties over the next couple of days will do it for the snow around Montpelier and i am sure a lot of the woods trails but the man made stuff should hold (I hope...)
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • edited April 4
    If we consider the ski season to be Oct. 15 to Jun.1, we are well passed 2/3.  I suspect that given the collection of SJers, most are past 90% in terms  of skier visits.  The summary on the last page has this season rated as 7th of the 11 years from 2007-8 to 2017-8.  I think it has been generally agreed that this season was a little poorer than last (2016-7: 4th place).  Is there any ground swell to raise this season above  2008-9 (5th place) or 2014-5 (6th place)? 
  • edited April 4
    I would bump it to 6th place because this season is ending in a similar fashion to 2014-2015, but late December and January was better this year, despite the cold.
    - Sam
  • edited April 4
    I need to double check my notes (not with me at moment) but I am going with this year being better than last year from my purview in SoVT.

    Christmas certainly had better snow conditions this year (everyone has a different cold threshold but I did not miss a day) with a 10" Pow day Christmas morning and great skiing thereafter.

    MLK worse this year but last year wasn't great iir.

    Presidents week was eerily similar....with a dump pre-weekend last year and 6-7" Saturday night this year. Then the meltdown both years.

    But the Presidents weekend melt down last year created poor skiing for several weeks, until Stella on March 12–15. This year there was a 12-14" storm leading into the weekend after Presidents - the first weekend of March - and then off to the races for what has to be one of the best March's EVER.

    And the snowpack remains strong with maybe more on Friday?

    So I think think year, in SoVT at least, beats last year.
  • Re Slatham's comment above:

    2016-7: Excellent Xmas Week including snow, wx and crowds; 
    2017-8: Xmas week lost due to extreme cold

    2016-7: MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January
    2017-8: MLK weekend lost to epic meltdown

    2016-7: Presidents Week lost to extreme cold
    2017-8: Presidents week lost to extreme warm

    2016-7: March was great
    2017-8: March was great

    So 2017-8 (IMO) loses to 2016-7 based on Xmas and MLK.  And the analysis vis-a-vis S. VT: VT is off 15% from last season.

  • I generally agree with Joshua's assessment above.  The only 2 things I'd slightly change:

    2017-2018 Christmas week:  Was extremely cold, but there was very good snow.  It loses out to the previous year, but it wasn't "lost".

    2017-2018 President's Week.  I would not at all say it was lost due to extreme warm.  The opening Saturday was good sunny groomer conditions.  Fun for anyone.  The Sunday morning was 4-6" of fresh on top of the groomers.  Best conditions of the season up to that point.  Monday and Tues were spring-like soft ski days (at least at Waterville).  I left after that so I can't recall how good or bad it was.  But 4 good days in a row doesn't count as the week being "lost".

    Lastly, the above comments are only in relation to the way this whole comparison is handled here on SJ.  Personally I don't believe the ski season only consists of 2 vacation weeks, 1 holiday weekend, and spring.  There is a whole lot of skiing that happens in between all of those specific events. And not just for the die-hards but also for lots of families, day-trippers, random one-timers, etc.  The resorts and surrounding businesses count on all of this other 'non-holiday' income too.  But I know that's never going to be a consideration in this analysis so I won't go there.  I'm well aware that I could start a different thread that compares the seasons in a different light.  So until I do that, I'll contribute only within the rules of this one. 
  • riverc0il noticed correctly, that I give a significant nod to the economics of a ski season and he is right.  I admit that it is a bias of mine.

    That being said, with regard to Xmas 2017, it was cold enough that Wiidcat and Killington both closed for a day.  And yes, the snow was better than good - but snow is only one of the aspects that makes for great skiing.

    And Feb. vacation 2017: Yes: Sunday the 18th was an awesome day, Monday was so-so; the rest of the week was awful.

    While I did not elaborate on the rest of the season, I didn't think I had to, because between Jan. 10 and March 6 (Mar. 2 for Southern VT), there were very few great days and if there was snow on one day, it melted or was rained on almost immediately.
  • riverc0il noticed correctly, that I give a significant nod to the economics of a ski season and he is right.  I admit that it is a bias of mine.

    Additionally, it should be noted in your defense, you have offered (if I remember correctly) that someone else could do the recaps and keep track of the results if the object. That would allow someone else's own personal bias to have a "final say". But no one has taken up the torch. So I protest more in jest at this point (thus my OP in this thread). JS does a fine job tabulating and incorporating a variety of input and we are more than welcome to do the "enthusiast version" version if we disagree with JS's industry and SoNH biased version. 
  • March was a 10/10 on my scale-I had some amazing days on the slopes...2 feet of powder at Catamount, perfect "chalky" powder at Mad River, cranking out run after run on the groomers at Stratton from 9-4 in bluebird sunshine and near freezing temps, Berkshire East 100% open with no crowds, Cranmore cruising and racing for the Ski Museum, Tenney's reopening with packed powder and zero crowds, West Mountain at night with temps in low 30's on perfect snow overlooking the lights of the Upper Hudson Valley...just a one of a kind month.
  • I think it's reasonable to say this was an average decent season.  Snow, ice, rain, freezes, thaws, seems like normal, which is a lot better than the bad years.  I could've done without the bombastic cyclone thing when JCP&L ineptitude left me without power for seven (7) days

  • I think it's reasonable to say this was an average decent season.  Snow, ice, rain, freezes, thaws, seems like normal, which is a lot better than the bad years.  I could've done without the bombastic cyclone thing when JCP&L ineptitude left me without power for seven (7) days




    I would agree UP UNTIL MARCH. as nelsap correctly put it, March was a 10/10. That is why this year is well above average, and why I think it beats last year, from a skiers (vs ski area aka skier visits) perspective. IMHO.
  • Ok, so this is getting good.  The cold front that bombarded the northeast last night appears to be hell bent on sticking around.  I see freezing temps every night for the next week in here Sterling MA with daytime temps not above 50.  April skiing is going to be stellar this season.
  • Ok, so this is getting good.  The cold front that bombarded the northeast last night appears to be hell bent on sticking around.  I see freezing temps every night for the next week in here Sterling MA with daytime temps not above 50.  April skiing is going to be stellar this season.

    Apr. 3-4 - rain; I'm at Killington (4/5-4/6).  The only thing stellar about the skiing is the cover.  The surface is January ice.  The jury is definitely out on April skiing.
  • Ok, so this is getting good.  The cold front that bombarded the northeast last night appears to be hell bent on sticking around.  I see freezing temps every night for the next week in here Sterling MA with daytime temps not above 50.  April skiing is going to be stellar this season.

    Apr. 3-4 - rain; I'm at Killington (4/5-4/6).  The only thing stellar about the skiing is the cover.  The surface is January ice.  The jury is definitely out on April skiing.
    Once it does soften, there is going to be a lot.


  • Ok, so this is getting good.  The cold front that bombarded the northeast last night appears to be hell bent on sticking around.  I see freezing temps every night for the next week in here Sterling MA with daytime temps not above 50.  April skiing is going to be stellar this season.

    Apr. 3-4 - rain; I'm at Killington (4/5-4/6).  The only thing stellar about the skiing is the cover.  The surface is January ice.  The jury is definitely out on April skiing.
    Once it does soften, there is going to be a lot.


    The forecast makes me think that this weekend everything remains pretty locked up.  Things start to break late next week and then its full on spring (hopefully for my last 2 weekends of the season).  If the final 2 weekends are sun, fun and soft moguls (ie. real spring skiing) that will up the grade.

    As for this weekend I think I might just hang here and close out the Camelback season with a better chance of softer snow down here. (got to be warmer down here)  BTW, the Pocono's making it in to the 1st week of April has got to count for something grade wise.

    Alex

    Lake Hopatcong, NJ


  • I updated the last summary (on Page 4 of this thread).

    All the people to whom I spoke beyond the SJ community are in agreement that this season was not as good as last season (2016-7).

    Right now, I have 2017-8 rated as 7th (2016-7 was 4th).  If you believe this season was better than 2008-9 or 2014-5, send in your inputs.  If you believe it was better than last season, please post your own list.
  • With such an amazing March/April, I'd move it up at least one place.
    - Sam
  • With such an amazing March/April, I'd move it up at least one place.

    I'd say April was lackluster. Cold and below average number of good corn snow spring skiing days. It has been great for base depths and snow preservation, though. But only the usual suspects are going late so minimal benefit from all that extra snow. Overall, a very middle of the pack season in relation to the past dozen or so years. Quite a few seasons have been a LOT worse, quite a few seasons have been substantially better. 
  • So far:
    - NES13 says - move it up one
    - riverc0il and I say, leave it where it is.

    Any other inputs before we put this thread to bed?
  • Now that the season is officially over, and in light of this https://vtskiandride.com/the-2017-18-season/ Should this season move up at least one?
  • Now that the season is officially over, and in light of this https://vtskiandride.com/the-2017-18-season/ Should this season move up at least one?

    Let's see if there are others who think so.
  • I've always argued for higher than 7, and I stand by that.
  • edited June 18
    Re Slatham's comment above:

    2016-7: Excellent Xmas Week including snow, wx and crowds;

    2017-8: Xmas week lost due to extreme cold

    Counter point - I wouldn't say lost, given 10" on Christmas day and great skiing with moderate cold on Tuesday and Wednesday. Thursday was brutal. Friday was very doable and the weekend was too with another 3". But I agree that forecast scared crowds away.


    2016-7: MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January

    2017-8: MLK weekend lost to epic meltdown

    Counterpoint - Agreed

    2016-7: Presidents Week lost to extreme cold

    2017-8: Presidents week lost to extreme warm

    Counterpoint - I think you are off by a year on the "extreme cold" for 16-17 (it was 15-16 when is was -23 on Sunday of Pres weekend). Presidents weekend was epic in 16-17, with a big storm late week and then beautiful sunshine Sat/Sun. It then lost it with a freeze on Monday, and a melt into the following weekend.17-18 wasn't much better, but it was better, with 7" on Saturday, good spring conditions mid week, terrible for a day but then OK over weekend.


    2016-7: March was great

    Counterpoint - Yes, but not until Stella, which was March 15th. Before that it sucked - epic Presidents weekend meltdown followed by freeze and no snow. Areas including even Magic were making snow the first 2 weekends of March.

    2017-8: March was great

    Counterpoint - Epic from the first of the month to the end of the month with 5'+ and no rain.

    You don't have a March like that not make top 5.
  • Finally Summary for 2017-8: I bumped it up one based on comments:

    2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of.
    2012-3: While there was little snow in December and January, February and March were epic. The snow that did happen in December was right before Christmas week which was timely from an economic point-of-view. Same was true of the January snow with respect to MLK weekend. Although there was minimal early snowfall, there was a lot of good snowmaking weather in December. There were two nasty January thaws, but great mid-winter skiing right into April. Ski areas closing with 100% full-width open trails.
    2013-2014: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
    2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
    2008-9: Early ice storm, superb Jan./Feb.
    2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
    2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
    2007-8: Lots of rain and temp swings
    2009-10: slow start to season, early ending
    2011-2: After October blockbuster storm, almost no natural snow all season. While the skiing was adequate on snowmaking trails, natural snow glade skiing and other aspects of the sport that involved natural snow, never materialized
    2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.
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