Impact of cold on bottom line?

lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
in NELSAP Forum Posts: 927
I would guess that this deep freeze is having a big negative impact on NNE ski areas. Any thoughts? Certainly the potential day skier is less likely to show up when temps are below zero, and the vacationer maybe does not ski, though still spends money in resort, or cancelled a week ago when they saw the forecast? Upside is no loss of snow when economically disastrous thaw occurs at this time, but could be just as bad or worse? Or no impact?

Discuss.
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Comments

  • newpylongnewpylong expert
    Posts: 605
    Very negative impact to day ticket revenue in my experience.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    newpylong said:

    Very negative impact to day ticket revenue in my experience.

    And I imagine day tickets account for varying percentages of overall income- some places (smaller feeder areas) will be hit harder than others (destination resorts)? Speculation on my part, but all I can manage while stoking the wood stove and watching Bormio...
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 387
    This kind of thing doesn't help either. Happened at Bromley on Xmas. 

    http://www.wcax.com/content/news/115-skiers-rescued-from-from-chairlift-at-Bromley-466791633.html

    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • JMaulJMaul advanced
    Posts: 269
    Jay Peak is claiming -31 above 2500'. Upper mountain lifts not running.

    Smuggs' M1 on cold hold. 

    Sunday River has all but 2 lifts on wind hold.


    I think that those who may have been thinking of a day trip will likely go another day, so minimal impact on revenue if looking at seasonal totals.
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • xwhalerxwhaler intermediate
    Posts: 64
    tough week for it to happen as well as generally mtns need to rake in the $ this week and in Feb
    the mtns could try and open if only to give ppl reason to spend $ on f+b inside to try and make some of it up
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 387
    A lot is closed at Sugarbush as well due to wind holds. 
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 266
    It looks quite cold on the webcams, with the winds whipping up flags at say Mad River and Mt. Snow.

    Wonder how the nordic areas are faring?
  • newmannewman advanced
    edited December 2017 Posts: 278
    The cold keeps all the big spenders on a holiday away. Lessons and rentals will be way down. Even food service and tubing ticket sales. Its to cold for the kids to go out and use the new skis Santa brought them. - Some parents may say It's to cold out there for little Billy and Suzie. Let's just go see a movie. We have all winter to ski.
  • DrJeffDrJeff advanced
    Posts: 332
    NELSAP said:

    It looks quite cold on the webcams, with the winds whipping up flags at say Mad River and Mt. Snow.

    Wonder how the nordic areas are faring?

    Stratton on their Instagram feed this morning put up a picture of the one and only Martha Stewart out on the trails of their Nordic center this morning, so they at least had one customer!
    ;)

    My almost 14yr old daughter who is up at Mount Snow race training today, has texted me many times today while I'm in my office in CT, with reports of even inspite of multiple face masks and liberal amounts of Dermatone, some probable frost bite on her nose, even with a 1 training run (riding the Bluebird which apparently is on reduced speed due to the wind) and then inside the lodge to warm up before making another run....

    As she put it to me, they're selling lots of hot chocolate and hand warmers in the lodge today!!
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 278
    This needs to be looked at relative to past seasons. For the first time in who knows how many years, we did not have a Christmas week thaw and many mountains are nearing 100% open. While revenue for Thursday and Friday will likely be significantly down to potential, I suspect the New England ski industry is going to do quite well for the entire vacation period of December 23rd through January 1st, especially compared to years of poor vacation periods. A lot of folks prepay for their vacation packages and need other things to do at resorts if they can't ski. Ski areas without resort amenities will suffer more. But they probably raked it in Tuesday/Wednesday following the storm and this weekend will likely be busy, I suspect.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    riverc0il said:

    This needs to be looked at relative to past seasons. For the first time in who knows how many years, we did not have a Christmas week thaw and many mountains are nearing 100% open. While revenue for Thursday and Friday will likely be significantly down to potential, I suspect the New England ski industry is going to do quite well for the entire vacation period of December 23rd through January 1st, especially compared to years of poor vacation periods. A lot of folks prepay for their vacation packages and need other things to do at resorts if they can't ski. Ski areas without resort amenities will suffer more. But they probably raked it in Tuesday/Wednesday following the storm and this weekend will likely be busy, I suspect.

    This is the assumption I want to see examined with real numbers. Will be interesting. Certainly the skier traffic was way down when compared to a typical holiday period when no meltdown (at least on web cams that I lurked on and in person at Sugarbush and MRG). I doubt there was much raking in, but we'll see. 

    It surely is an unusual situation: The goods are here (snow), but cold weather (possibly/likely) keeping people away, though not taking snow away (which bodes well for later big money periods and may pen up demand?).

    If anyone gets wind of any numbers, please post. 
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    bmwskier said:

    A lot is closed at Sugarbush as well due to wind holds. 

    Everything shut down at ME except Sunny D (Q?), and GMVS was cooking (shivering?) along with the poma and t-bar. Another reason to love surface lifts  :)]

     
    LP lost all but Valley House, Gate House and Castlerock, I think.

    MRG lost all but Practice Slope chairs.

    Crazy.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    edited December 2017 Posts: 1,946
    I saw on WMUR (NH's ABC affiliate) that Wildcat closed today, although anyone with a Peak Pass who was committed to skiing could go to Attitash.  Crotched Mtn. closed at 6PM rather than 9PM.  

    Based on today's crowd, the cold is really damaging what should be an off-the-charts holiday week.  20 degrees is not in the 10-day forecast for Bennington, NH (CM).  
  • JMaulJMaul advanced
    Posts: 269
    Berkshire East has postponed night skiing til 1/4 and canceled NYE torchlight parade.

    Yeah, it's cold. Yeah, people need to be smart. 
    But, people also like lawsuits.
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,875
    JMaul said:

    Berkshire East has postponed night skiing til 1/4 and canceled NYE torchlight parade.


    Yeah, it's cold. Yeah, people need to be smart. 
    But, people also like lawsuits.
    The coffee was too hot⛷⛷⛷
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,875
    Helps lower the global w thread⛷⛷⛷
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    JMaul said:

    Berkshire East has postponed night skiing til 1/4 and canceled NYE torchlight parade.


    Yeah, it's cold. Yeah, people need to be smart. 
    But, people also like lawsuits.
    Ditto Oak Mt. No night skiing and parade cancelled, but fireworks still on. 
  • TreillyTreilly advanced
    Posts: 209
    I was at a small hill outside Detroit last night. It was 9 above zero and I was shocked at the amount of people. It wasn’t as busy as it normally would have been but better than I thought
  • sugarloafsugarloaf expert
    Posts: 810
    Im going to miss out on skiing this week, but I'll be skiing Berkshire East on Monday. I can't wait to ski the new trails

    Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.

  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    Treilly said:

    I was at a small hill outside Detroit last night. It was 9 above zero and I was shocked at the amount of people. It wasn’t as busy as it normally would have been but better than I thought

    9 above right now would be cause for celebration here in VT. At least the wind has died so lifts will stay open.
  • Bill29Bill29 advanced
    Posts: 267
    Bundle up. Make a cocoon of your clothes so that you build your own mini-climate. With newer and better fabric and design, that's easier to do than it used to be. Then ski and enjoy.
    Some of the best days on snow I've had in past years have been when temperatures were double-digit below zero.In your own mini-climate, with hat, mask, goggles, layered clothing and mittens rather than gloves, the air can't get at you, so you don't have to be frightened by the wind chill predictions on tv.
    I think (though I have no statistical proof) that more skiers - or at least a greater percentage of skiers -  hit the slopes in below zero weather in the 1950s and '60s, before people talked about wind chill. Maybe ignorance was bliss back then. Or maybe (and I want everyone older that 60 on this forum to agree with me, because it drives the young kids nuts), just maybe, WE WERE TOUGHER!

  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,875
    Yeah I remember skiing in the mid 90s I was at bittersweet before they had the high-speed quad and it was 25 below and they close the area down gave us vouchers to come back
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 387
    Bill29 said:


    I think (though I have no statistical proof) that more skiers - or at least a greater percentage of skiers -  hit the slopes in below zero weather in the 1950s and '60s, before people talked about wind chill. Maybe ignorance was bliss back then. Or maybe (and I want everyone older that 60 on this forum to agree with me, because it drives the young kids nuts), just maybe, WE WERE TOUGHER!

    According to my parents from long ago, there was a lot of alcohol involved as well. Sure, it's an illusion in creating warmth, but everyone in the old photos I have shows them to be well lubricated! 

    And they were tougher. What's windchill compared to WWII, the Nazi's and the Japanese or the threat of nuclear war with the Commies? 
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • newmannewman advanced
    edited December 2017 Posts: 278
    Back in my day we walked the whole way to and from school in the snow. And it was uphill both ways!
  • DrJeffDrJeff advanced
    Posts: 332
    Decent, but not HUGE crowd at Mount Snow today. Kind of felt like an average Saturday crowd on the hill, but you know it's a Holiday week when you go into the lodge or any of the local grocery stores!!

    A few degrees below zero to 0 air temp and light winds felt decent today, even though it was cloudy out!! Forecasted mid teens tomorrow will feel downright balmy, before the next Artic reinforcement shot arrives Sunday!!!
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,946
    newman said:Back in my day we walked the whole way to and from school in the snow. And it was uphill both ways!

    A good old line.  But it was in
    waist deep snow uphill both ways.
  • sugarloafsugarloaf expert
    edited December 2017 Posts: 810
    Don't forget walking to school barefoot as well.

    Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.

  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 927
    Wind chill is so millennial. Just like concussions, there was none of that when I was in high school.

    All emotion and nostalgia and pontificating aside, I think ski areas are taking it on the chops, though I hope it is otherwise (I work in the industry). My guess (hope) is that tomorrow will be huge b/c temps will be above 10 degrees in much of NE, then back in the freezer...
  • riverc0ilriverc0il advanced
    Posts: 278
    Temps are colder than I thought that they were going to be this weekend and not much new snow to speak of. I thought there was talk of a slight bit of relenting of cold and maybe some new snow this weekend. Doesn't look like temps will get above single digits at ski areas this weekend. Last weekend was gold and Tues/Weds must have been quite good. But Thurs-Mon this weekend in the deep freeze suggests revenues will not rebound and things might have even been better for ski areas with the normal thaw this week. Good grief! Not even sure if I'll venture out there this weekend if there isn't going to be new snow.
  • ciscokidciscokid expert
    Posts: 1,875
    Don't know bout ski area bottom lines but when I look at being colder than Anchorage and nearing Fairbanks temps it's def sled dog time

    Fuel spikes may hinder spending too
    But stocks still soaring so optimism
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