Lifts that should be replaced, Installed or REMOVED?!

What lifts do you think need to be replaced, Installed or Removed. There are always places that could use a new lift, an upgrade or perhaps a lift that hasn't been thought of yet. On the flip side, what is a lift install that has you scratching your head?
~Rich~
«13

Comments

  • Could you clarify the subject:
    "Should be replaced, Installed or REMOVED" due to what? Age? safety? Terrain served? Speed? Traffic requirements?
  • edited September 6
    As far as replacement, or Removal Its really an uphill capacity issue to me but that doesn't mean tear it down and throw a six pack in at MRG either. Mad runs those old beauts just fine. Other than that, don't really think about it too deeply.
    ~Rich~
  • edited September 6
    ADKskier said:

    As far as replacement, or Removal Its really an uphill capacity issue to me but that doesn't mean tear it down and throw a six pack in at MRG either. Mad runs those old beauts just fine. Other than that, don't really think about it too deeply.

    OK. No rules.

    IMO, in the modern era of skiing, any fixed grip chair running at a rope speed of less than 600 feet per minute is a candidate for replacement. I can't imagine the pain of being on M1 at Smugglers' on a zero degree day (and other similar lifts at other areas) .

    Also, any beginner slope still using a rope tow should be replacing it with a carpet.
  • No fixed grips operate at 600 fpm so are you saying any fixed grip should be replaced with a high speed lift?
  • ADKskier said:

    As far as replacement, or Removal Its really an uphill capacity issue to me but that doesn't mean tear it down and throw a six pack in at MRG either. Mad runs those old beauts just fine. Other than that, don't really think about it too deeply.

    OK. No rules.

    IMO, in the modern era of skiing, any fixed grip chair running at a rope speed of less than 600 feet per minute is a candidate for replacement. I can't imagine the pain of being on M1 at Smugglers' on a zero degree day (and other similar lifts at other areas) .

    Also, any beginner slope still using a rope tow should be replacing it with a carpet.
    I don’t agree. Fixed grip lifts have many advantages such as spreading people out, keeping operating costs down, and giving more rest time between runs.

    Rope tows definitely still have their place in novice and beginner areas, especially with modern rope tows that are easier to ride. They provide far more flexibility in length of runs, sometimes have higher capacities, and often are a quicker ride.
    - Sam
  • Apparently any lift at Ski Blandford. I hope they are back up and running this season.

    Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.

  • Taking you points one at a time, Sam (NES13):
    <<
    I don’t agree. Fixed grip lifts have many advantages such as spreading people out, keeping operating costs down, and giving more rest time between runs.
    >>
    Fixed grip lifts are fine. I specifically suggested the longer ones, nominally, greater than 5000'.

    Keeping operating costs down is not my problem as a skier. If you are an owner or manager, it is!

    Rest time between runs? Come on. The individual can regulate that.

    Spreading people out? Uh-uh: A fixed grip quad puts the same number of people on the hill as a detachable: 1 chair every 6 to 10 seconds.

    <<
    Rope tows definitely still have their place in novice and beginner areas, especially with modern rope tows that are easier to ride. They provide far more flexibility in length of runs, sometimes have higher capacities, and often are a quicker ride.
    >>
    Last year was my 40th season teaching. I can't tell you how much of a beginner class was taken up (wasted) by teaching people how to hold on to a rope tow. Riding a rope tow is not natural.

    By contrast, almost everyone has ridden a people mover at an airport, so riding a carpet is something with which the student is already familiar.
  • Fixed Grip lifts are also sometimes necessary to deal with wind issues.
  • edited September 6
    Keeping operating costs down is not my problem as a skier. If you are an owner or manager, it is!


    If it's the owner's problem, it becomes YOUR problem when the cost is passed on to you.

    Back on topic, I would nominate the Duckling Double at Sunapee. It's been in the cross hairs for removal forever but continues to survive...
  • I'd love to see a lift addition or upgrade at Wildcat that would serve as a good alternative for the quad. With the current configuration it's essentially a one-lift mountain which goes from all to nothing when weather shuts the quad down. Yes, I know, the Tomcat triple does run and gets you 2/3 of the way up. But they typically don't have it running and it can take a while to fire it up when the quad goes down. I've been there several times when weather shut the quad down and the whole place was done for the day.
  • newpylong said:

    No fixed grips operate at 600 fpm so are you saying any fixed grip should be replaced with a high speed lift?

    Carpet loaded?
  • newpylong said:

    No fixed grips operate at 600 fpm so are you saying any fixed grip should be replaced with a high speed lift?

    Carpet loaded?
    They do with a carpet and the MRG single, I believe, goes 650' per minute.
  • edited September 6
    You load the MRG single sideways, basically stepping from snow onto the loading area (wood planks). Last place there will be a carpet loader.

    I only have the old ANSI B77.1 code (not the new 2017 version) and max rope speeds are the following WITH OR WITHOUT carpets:

    600 FPM max for single chairs
    550 FPM max for doubles
    500 FPM max for triples
    450 FPM max for quads

    They do not run the MRG single at it's design and allowable max, but it does run very fast.

    With the new 2017 standard now that carpet loaders are more widestream and get into relative rope speeds to the riders. IE depending on the carpet, some quads can now load at 500 fpm, some at 485 fpm etc. I do not know of any carpet loaders on Doubles or Singles so above 600 is irrelevant.
  • Wish they could speed up Summit at Mt. Ellen. That is a SLOW lift...


  • Rest time between runs? Come on. The individual can regulate that.

    This I agree with. Go rest in the lodge if you need a break! :-)
  • As much as it pains me to say it: a purchase of Lab/Song by Vail or Peak Resorts would be a lifesaver for them. The snowmaking and lift infrastructure, especially at Lab, would be immediately addressed. The two Hall doubles, Borvig triple, and 😣😣😣 Hall t-bar need to go and be replaced with either Doppelmayr or Poma quad chairs with a detachable running up the Jacopie slope.
  • The Bellearye Gondola IMO is a love hate for me. I just don't get it...but at the same time, is their only true base to summit lift.
    ~Rich~
  • newpylong said:

    You load the MRG single sideways, basically stepping from snow onto the loading area (wood planks). Last place there will be a carpet loader.



    I only have the old ANSI B77.1 code (not the new 2017 version) and max rope speeds are the following WITH OR WITHOUT carpets:



    600 FPM max for single chairs

    550 FPM max for doubles

    500 FPM max for triples

    450 FPM max for quads



    They do not run the MRG single at it's design and allowable max, but it does run very fast.



    With the new 2017 standard now that carpet loaders are more widestream and get into relative rope speeds to the riders. IE depending on the carpet, some quads can now load at 500 fpm, some at 485 fpm etc. I do not know of any carpet loaders on Doubles or Singles so above 600 is irrelevant.

    Sugarloaf's lift page lists Skyline quad @ 500fpm, the same as the West Mountain double. Doesn't really seem to be much of a gain adding a carpet as they make it out to be.
  • As much as it pains me to say it: a purchase of Lab/Song by Vail or Peak Resorts would be a lifesaver for them. The snowmaking and lift infrastructure, especially at Lab, would be immediately addressed. The two Hall doubles, Borvig triple, and 😣😣😣 Hall t-bar need to go and be replaced with either Doppelmayr or Poma quad chairs with a detachable running up the Jacopie slope.

    Interesting comment. I think Song/Labrador would have met the Peak Resorts model of 10 years ago. But it seems that their new acquisitions are no longer the mid-size daytrip areas such as Crotched and Jack Frost/Big Boulder but the mega-resorts like Mt. Snow and Hunter.
  • I can’t call Hunter or Mt. Snow mega resorts. That doesn’t exactly fit the Peak Resorts model.
  • I can’t call Hunter or Mt. Snow mega resorts. That doesn’t exactly fit the Peak Resorts model.

    I don't understand your comment. Are you saying
    a) Mt. Snow/Hunter don't fit the Peak model
    b) that Hunter and Mt. Snow aren't mega resorts
    c) both a and b
    d)Something else
    ??
  • > @joshua_segal said:
    > I can’t call Hunter or Mt. Snow mega resorts. That doesn’t exactly fit the Peak Resorts model.
    >
    > I don't understand your comment. Are you saying
    > a) Mt. Snow/Hunter don't fit the Peak model
    > b) that Hunter and Mt. Snow aren't mega resorts
    > c) both a and b
    > d)Something else
    > ??

    B
  • edited September 7

    > @joshua_segal said:

    > I can’t call Hunter or Mt. Snow mega resorts. That doesn’t exactly fit the Peak Resorts model.

    > I don't understand your comment. Are you saying
    > a) Mt. Snow/Hunter don't fit the Peak model
    > b) that Hunter and Mt. Snow aren't mega resorts
    > c) both a and b
    > d)Something else
    > ??
    B

    OK. That begs the question: What's your definition of a mega resort?
  • > @joshua_segal said:

    > I can’t call Hunter or Mt. Snow mega resorts. That doesn’t exactly fit the Peak Resorts model.

    > I don't understand your comment. Are you saying
    > a) Mt. Snow/Hunter don't fit the Peak model
    > b) that Hunter and Mt. Snow aren't mega resorts
    > c) both a and b
    > d)Something else
    > ??
    B

    OK. That begs the question: What's your definition of a mega resort?
    </blockquotes

    Hmmmm this could be its own topic, how do we define a mega resort? It should be kept regional in my opinion. It would be unfair to compare an East coast to a Western resort, or a Midwestern resort to a East Coast resort etc..
    ~Rich~
  • When I think of East Coast destination resorts I think of Killington, Stowe, and Stratton. Maybe Sunday River as well. Places like Mt. Snow and Hunter to me are more like regional resorts with a lesser mega-resort feel to them.

    That’s my take.

    I personally would love to see Sugarbush become a Peak Resort as they would turn it into their marquee property and would invest in it accordingly. They would not Vail-ify it to resemble the other properties.
  • edited September 7
    I think Alterra would be more a likely suitor for Sugarbush as it would provide a counter option to Stowe.

    As for lifts that should be replaced, nothing ranks higher on my list than that stupid Cabriolet at Mountain Creek. That should be swapped with the detachable quad at South peak as it is more snowboarder friendly.

  • > @NJSki said:
    > I think Alterra would be more a likely suitor for Sugarbush as it would provide a counter option to Stowe.
    >
    > As for lifts that should be replaced, nothing ranks higher on my list than that stupid Cabriolet at Mountain Creek. That should be swapped with the detachable quad at South peak as it is more snowboarder friendly.

    You may be right that Alterra could be a better fit than Peaks for Sugarbush. They control some pretty elegant resorts, like Deer Valley, Stratton, and Mont Tremblant. They undoubtedly would ply some of that elegance and luxury cache onto Sugarbush.

    Honestly, Sugarbush’s Lincoln Peak has to be one of the most beautiful-looking eastern resorts in my mind with true summit to base skiing. Just looking at it from the base area is really impressive.
  • Why would you want anyone to buy Sugarbush? It's one of the last independent large resorts.
    - Sam
  • I wouldn't want Sugarbush to be bought up. However, if it comes down to survival in this new age of ski resort conglomeration, I think this would be a fit for Alterra.
  • > <<br />


    Honestly, Sugarbush’s Lincoln Peak has to be one of the most beautiful-looking eastern resorts in my mind with true summit to base skiing. Just looking at it from the base area is really impressive.


    It was precisely that view that hooked me on Sugarbush (and the whole MRV) many years ago.
Sign In or Register to comment.