Les Otten

in NELSAP Forum Posts: 2,598
A Portland, Maine radio station just interviewed Les Otten, of Maine Energy Systems, Bethel, Maine. It is a hi tec wood pellet boiler company. I looked at their web-site as well. It sounds/looks like a good product. Then I looked at the Balsams Wilderness site. It’s now The Balsams Resort. The site is still active, and it mentions Otten here and there. Of course, there hasn’t been news about further development for some time.

Comments

  • Posts: 132
    There's no news about The Balsams project because Otten & Co. ran up the white flag and put the whole thing up for sale. They couldn't get it financed, so they're trying to bail--while of course claiming it was always their strategy to bring in deeper pockets.

    From what I knew of it, it was a project that had its headquarters in Fantasyland.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 4,685
    Apparently no white flag as of yet. "Les Otten's North Country Coos, LLC has acquired Dan Hebert's fifty percent share of the Balsams Resort, the company announced this week. According to the Colebrook Chronicle, Annmarie Turcotte has joined as a new investor, making the purchase possible. Turcotte appears to be the widow of Wall-Tech Systems, Inc. founder Marcel Turcotte."

    "Though the defunct ski area has yet to open, the Balsams has recently began offering an upscale vacation rental. The seven-bedroom Hale House was featured on Travel+Leisure in December as one of the "seven best winter lodges" in the United States. The rental is listed as being $2,600 per night for up to eight people and comes with a private chef."

    1/8/2021 Source NESI - scooped us again

    Colebrook Chronicle
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • Posts: 3,602
    ski_it wrote: »
    Apparently no white flag as of yet. "Les Otten's North Country Coos, LLC has acquired Dan Hebert's fifty percent share of the Balsams Resort, the company announced this week. According to the Colebrook Chronicle, Annmarie Turcotte has joined as a new investor, making the purchase possible. Turcotte appears to be the widow of Wall-Tech Systems, Inc. founder Marcel Turcotte." 1/8/2021 Source NESI - scooped us again

    Colebrook Chronicle


    I like the duck story.
  • For many of us, the stench of Northern Pass still lingers on Mr. Otten.
  • Posts: 2,972
    Friend of mine from the Bethel region swears that Les will reopen the Balsams. Said this about a month ago. Then he backpedaled a bit when I pressed him about the size & scope of the reopening. So maybe this Hale House is what he was talking about LOL.

    The guy worked at Sunday River during its growth period, says the employee motto was "do more for less"
  • Posts: 2,512
    timberleaf wrote: »
    For many of us, the stench of Northern Pass still lingers on Mr. Otten.

    Not many other ways to get the power capacity into the region that the build out will require, of course he was a proponent.
  • A common misconception is that the power from Northern Pass would be actually have been consumed in Coos County.

    The power was to flow THROUGH Coos on a point to point DC current line that terminated in Franklin, NH at an AC conversion station. The AC was to then continue on another point to point line down into Deerfield, NH where it would ultimately enter the New England Grid for consumption in the population centers in Southern New England.

    As far as the Northern Pass electrons were concerned, Coos county was a flyover state.

    Otten agreed to provide testimony in favor of the project in exchange for $5M in financing for the Balsams. http://indepthnh.org/2017/10/07/les-otten-5m-balsams-loan-required-his-testimony-for-northern-pass/

    So perhaps a better way to state it would be: "They gave him money, of course he was a proponent."

    Which is an arrangement that is foundational to many enterprises... including prostitution.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 2,512
    All of that is 100% true however, having a copy of the legacy National Grid regional power distribution map at my fingertips, the type of power that will be required for size of the resort they are planning is not currently being generated in Northern New England. So sure, it was a bribe, but the county will need the power from somewhere should it ever go forward, if not this, another similar project to bring Hydro power down. Hopefully one more advantageous to us and less Southern New England. That was my only basis for the comment.
  • If the new Balsams depends on the availability of power from a similar project, then the earliest opening date for the new Balsams will coincide with the earliest completion date for that similar project.

    Northern Pass had a projected 3 year build out period and spanned 9 years from project announcement to project abandonment.

    Based on that, it's safe to say that a similar project, if announced today, would be looking at an in-service date no earlier than 2030.

    No similar project has been announced today... and tomorrow ain't looking too good either.

    Meanwhile, Otten will be 72 years old this year.

    IOW: It's OK to buy green bananas but I'm not sure I'd recommend him booking a tee time for opening day at the new Balsams.

  • The Balsams will never open the way Otten wants it to open.
  • Posts: 2,512
    Unfortunately it's the only way it will reopen.
  • Balsams Announces New Partner
    Construction of a new hotel at the defunct resort could start next year.
    Friday, December 10, 2021, NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com

    869a.jpg
    The Balsams, June 2020

    Construction of the proposed Lake Gloriette House hotel could start next year, Balsams owner Les Otten told the Coos County Commissioners on Wednesday.

    The financing would be provided by Provident Resources Group, the same company involved with the redevelopment of Big Squaw in Maine. Under the proposal, Coos County would need to "adopt a resolution evidencing their support of the project," but would not have a financial obligation, according to Otten. The commission could vote on a resolution as soon as next week.

    According to the Colebrook Chronicle, Provident would sell tax-exempt bonds for a business entity it would create to own the new hotel, which could have a 2022 groundbreaking. Otten's group would retain operational control of the facility.

    Primarily involved in educational and senior living developments, Provident Resources Group of Baton Rouge, Louisiana is working with Big Lake Development to procure funding for the once-estimated $75 million Big Squaw, Maine redevelopment. Though it does not have any ski development experience, it does claim to have facilitated the development of water parks. As of early December, the Big Squaw acquisition has not been completed and it is not known if the existing ski area will operate this year. Once sold, the Big Squaw ski area would be renamed and redeveloped.

    According to Otten, "By having a partner like Provident, it gives us a head start on the housing we want to build in Colebrook at the golf couse."

    It is not known what the timeline for the redevelopment of the Balsams ski area is at this point.

    The northernmost chairlift served ski area in New Hampshire, the Balsams Wilderness operated from 1966 until 2011, when the Dixville Notch Balsams Grand Resort was shuttered. Daniel Dagesse and Daniel Hebert acquired the resort later that year. While equipment has been sold and some hotel related structures demolished, the ski lodge and triple chairlifts remain in place. Les Otten has been involved in the project since 2014, purchasing Dan Dagesse's stake in 2017. Annmarie Turcotte joined as a partner circa early 2021. Plans include 22 ski lifts serving 1,200 acres of skiable terrain. At present, vacation rentals are operated on the property.


    Colebrook Chronicle
    - Sam
  • Posts: 2,972
    Well I finally got back to Dixville Notch on Saturday afternoon (last time I was there was 1966) and based on my updated observations, I'll make two predictions for the future of the Balsams. No timeline here.

    1. Someday, somehow, the Balsams resort will reopen on a large scale, in some fashion. Might be just a ski area, might be just a grand hotel, might be an AMC hostel...but eventually part of it or possibly all of it will become something, and people will go there.

    2. It won't be Les Otten. He may ride in the parade, but it won't really be his doing. Most likely happen long after he's out of the picture.
  • Posts: 132
    One could argue that a highly marginal investment project like the Balsams redevelopment might have been possible when long-term interest rates were in the 3% range. But at 7+%...?

    When the cost of capital doubles, a lot of marginal/questionable projects suddenly become footnotes.
  • Posts: 3,602
    Just. So. remote.

    Whether actually a long way from anywhere or just perception, it seems so far from customer base as well as employee base. It would have to be over-the-top skiing as well as amenities to work.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,512
    Sunday River was once a mole hill, remote and didn't/doesn't have over the top skiing and look where it is today. Bethel same population as Colebrook as far as closest town. Closer to some population in Maine but Balsams is same distance to big cities and closer to Montreal.

    Not saying there will be a repeat but there's a precedent.
  • Posts: 2,972
    newpylong wrote: »
    Sunday River was once a mole hill, remote and didn't/doesn't have over the top skiing and look where it is today. Bethel same population as Colebrook as far as closest town. Closer to some population in Maine but Balsams is same distance to big cities and closer to Montreal.

    Not saying there will be a repeat but there's a precedent.

    Yes when I drove through on Saturday it struck me how non-remote it's become. People towing off-road thingies up and down Rt 3. To the east, Errol NH has actually become crowded on weekends. And it's getting more crowded elsewhere. The traffic in North Conway is pretty grim these days, and the parking lots are overflowing at Sunday River every winter. The average middle class vacation home buyer has been squeezed out of Sunday River. Dixville Notch is 15 miles closer than Jay Peak to my daughter's house in suburban Boston.

    It may not be in my lifetime, but I'd bet the deed to the farm that something will happen there.
  • rickbolger wrote: »
    newpylong wrote: »
    Sunday River was once a mole hill, remote and didn't/doesn't have over the top skiing and look where it is today. Bethel same population as Colebrook as far as closest town. Closer to some population in Maine but Balsams is same distance to big cities and closer to Montreal.

    Not saying there will be a repeat but there's a precedent.

    Yes when I drove through on Saturday it struck me how non-remote it's become. People towing off-road thingies up and down Rt 3. To the east, Errol NH has actually become crowded on weekends. And it's getting more crowded elsewhere. The traffic in North Conway is pretty grim these days, and the parking lots are overflowing at Sunday River every winter. The average middle class vacation home buyer has been squeezed out of Sunday River. Dixville Notch is 15 miles closer than Jay Peak to my daughter's house in suburban Boston.

    It may not be in my lifetime, but I'd bet the deed to the farm that something will happen there.

    I agree, as someone who lives not too far away, those are the areas we try to avoid for significant parts of the year, due to how crowded they have become.
    - Sam
  • Posts: 743
    Whether actually a long way from anywhere or just perception, it seems so far from customer base as well as employee base. It would have to be over-the-top skiing as well as amenities to work.
    I think amenities, culture, and atmosphere will be much more important than the skiing in attracting guests. Then again, the atmosphere of the grand hotel still didn't draw folks. But as an upscale retreat from the overcrowded resorts? Maybe a better fit for modern times than the Grand.

    Employee base for a massive build out is certainly going to be a problem. They will need to rely on help from foreign visa workers. Same as any major resort, really. Not many major resorts with significant bed-base that can do it will local help only.

    At 1:45 north of Lincoln and North Conway (on non-interstate), they are going to have to build something quite special to get folks to keep driving past other resorts. That drive north on Route 3 is a snooze-fest. It may be closer to Boston than Jay... but Jay gets the most snow in the northeast and is well-known for its glades, reason enough for the drive.
  • Posts: 132
    riverc0il wrote: »
    ...At 1:45 north of Lincoln and North Conway (on non-interstate), they are going to have to build something quite special to get folks to keep driving past other resorts. That drive north on Route 3 is a snooze-fest. It may be closer to Boston than Jay... but Jay gets the most snow in the northeast and is well-known for its glades, reason enough for the drive.

    I've done that drive multiple times. It may be 1:45 now when there's nothing in Dixville Notch to go to, but once that changes, you can probably add an hour onto that portion of the drive. Why? Route 3 north of the notch is SLOW. You can't go fast on it...even when you theoretically can. Constant speed traps (on one trip I counted 4 speed traps between Franconia Notch and Colebrook). Then you have a number of small towns you have to go through with stoplights, etc. The road itself (last time I drove it) was not in the best of shape. Barring a new highway being constructed which make this go faster (either by turning Rt. 3 into a 4-lane highway, or constructing a new road - neither of which is going to happen), this is going to be a brutal and unpleasant drive for anyone that wants to get to Dixville Notch.

    I simply do not see the Balsams project coming to fruition. And it's not just one reason why - it's many of them.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 5,489
    powderstud wrote: »
    riverc0il wrote: »
    ...At 1:45 north of Lincoln and North Conway (on non-interstate), they are going to have to build something quite special to get folks to keep driving past other resorts. That drive north on Route 3 is a snooze-fest. It may be closer to Boston than Jay... but Jay gets the most snow in the northeast and is well-known for its glades, reason enough for the drive.

    I've done that drive multiple times. It may be 1:45 now when there's nothing in Dixville Notch to go to, but once that changes, you can probably add an hour onto that portion of the drive. Why? Route 3 north of the notch is SLOW. You can't go fast on it...even when you theoretically can. Constant speed traps (on one trip I counted 4 speed traps between Franconia Notch and Colebrook). Then you have a number of small towns you have to go through with stoplights, etc. The road itself (last time I drove it) was not in the best of shape. Barring a new highway being constructed which make this go faster (either by turning Rt. 3 into a 4-lane highway, or constructing a new road - neither of which is going to happen), this is going to be a brutal and unpleasant drive for anyone that wants to get to Dixville Notch.

    I simply do not see the Balsams project coming to fruition. And it's not just one reason why - it's many of them.

    Well, most people coming from the Boston area would likely be taking Interstate 95 to Route 26 to get to the Balsams. Route 26 is a fast highway in pretty good shape almost the entire way there. The only place where you have to slow down significantly is around Bethel.
    - Sam
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,512
    From downtown or anywhere but the North Shore it's significantly faster to take 93 and get off at 3 through Twin Mountain.
  • newpylong wrote: »
    From downtown or anywhere but the North Shore it's significantly faster to take 93 and get off at 3 through Twin Mountain.

    I guess it does look that way from downtown. I was doing the time from where I used to live on the north shore.
    - Sam
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 743
    powderstud wrote: »
    I've done that drive multiple times. It may be 1:45 now when there's nothing in Dixville Notch to go to, but once that changes, you can probably add an hour onto that portion of the drive. Why? Route 3 north of the notch is SLOW.
    There are a few town centers, but Route 3 north of F Notch is generally a 50 zone and people go WAY faster than that. I road bike a lot in that area. I will never ride Route 3 between Lancaster and Colebrook ever again. Once was enough and VT-102 is a much better ride. Traffic on Rt3 is high speed in between the town centers. People will just pass slower traffic.

    I never considered ME-26 from Boston. I checked Google Maps and it looks to be 20 minutes longer than I-93 to Rt3, but about equal time for the 128/95 interchange, and faster for points north and east of there. I would say "Boston area" would definitely go I-93, where going faster than the speed limit would yield much faster times than G Maps.

    I used to live in Beverly/Salem. I have also been guilty of using the proverbial "Boston area" to cover locales outside of the actually metro. North Shore is definitely not Boston Area. :D
  • riverc0il wrote: »
    powderstud wrote: »
    I've done that drive multiple times. It may be 1:45 now when there's nothing in Dixville Notch to go to, but once that changes, you can probably add an hour onto that portion of the drive. Why? Route 3 north of the notch is SLOW.
    There are a few town centers, but Route 3 north of F Notch is generally a 50 zone and people go WAY faster than that. I road bike a lot in that area. I will never ride Route 3 between Lancaster and Colebrook ever again. Once was enough and VT-102 is a much better ride. Traffic on Rt3 is high speed in between the town centers. People will just pass slower traffic.

    I never considered ME-26 from Boston. I checked Google Maps and it looks to be 20 minutes longer than I-93 to Rt3, but about equal time for the 128/95 interchange, and faster for points north and east of there. I would say "Boston area" would definitely go I-93, where going faster than the speed limit would yield much faster times than G Maps.

    I used to live in Beverly/Salem. I have also been guilty of using the proverbial "Boston area" to cover locales outside of the actually metro. North Shore is definitely not Boston Area. :D

    So when you lived in Beverly or Salem, if someone who lives out of state asked you where you were from, you wouldn't say the Boston area?
    - Sam
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 743
    So when you lived in Beverly or Salem, if someone who lives out of state asked you where you were from, you wouldn't say the Boston area?
    Like I said, I was also guilty of generalizing "Boston Area" to mean more than it actually denotes. It clearly created confusion in response to your comment that the Maine route was faster. If someone is familiar with MA, then no, I would not refer to the north shore as Boston area. Someone outside of New England, sure.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,685
    Potato Potatoe if you ask me. Hey did you know Colebrook or Colebrooke was once the Potato Capital of New Hampshire?
    Source: Wiki
    They would bring it to Maine to trade for salted fish, etc,
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
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