Q Burke disaster

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  • JMaulJMaul advanced
    Posts: 205
    obienick said:
    That Flow Chart........

    Rediculous. Here's looking at you, Q....

    image
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 1,548
    And I can remember way back, when Bill was just some guy snow blowing the paths to the condos. How far he's ......?

    This could possibly affect Bernie as well as the Gov.
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • JMaulJMaul advanced
    Posts: 205
    Copy/paste from Jay's fb page:

    Sorry we took a few extra minutes reaching out folks. As you may have heard, we here at Jay Peak will be working with Leisure Hotels and Resorts (LHR) to continue managing Jay Peak same as it ever was. Current ownership is working with state and federal officials surrounding their ongoing investigation relative to the EB5 Foreign Investment Program. That process is distinct and not connected to the day to day operations of the mountain, indoor waterpark, golf course, lodging or any of our amenities that continue to be available on a daily basis here. Our longtime CMO Steve Wright has recently been named General Manager and he, along with LHR will be responsible for the day to day operations of the resort.

    We are anticipating our busiest summer on record with music, conferences, almost 70 weddings and a host of other business segments and we look forward to keeping on. It is an awkward time for us on the ground as well and we appreciate you giving us some room to figure all of this out. We will absolutely keep you in the loop as this takes more shape and appreciate your support as we move toward a much more sustainable future. We will be operating for skiing and riding this week and through the weekend with Ski School reopening for Sat. April 16th and have decided to continue operations through next week, weather permitting on both sides of the mountain, through the 24th. We’ll take a look at conditions thereafter and make a call about going for May.

    Again, thanks so much- we appreciate your support more than you know.

    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 561

    If Rocket were still around, he'd probably post this photo...

    image

    Douglas was the first cheerleader- plenty of backpedaling on both sides of the aisle. If what the charge alleges is true, they simply were crooks with the EB 5 money.  The irony of a Jay Peak ad playing right now on the telly in front of me is not lost...


  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 561
    What 'other' ski area did Q buy? I can't find it in the complaint, only Jay and Burke are mentioned?
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 790
    The ski area they are referring to is Burke itself.  Jay bought it with swindled EB5 money.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 956
    Well if there is an aisle, I can't find it. Seems more like Lilliputians and their eggs.

    Anyway, I think this guy Shumway was honestly doing what he thought was best for the people of Vermont. How could he foresee this kind of chicanery?

    I just think the photo is humorous, in hindsight. I also think people realize that this entanglement wasn't his doing. He may have enabled an easier path, but you can't fault him when dishonest people use it. I don't think Shumway needs to backpedal, from what I've seen.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 561
    Shumlin is already backpedaling. From WCAX site:


    "This is obviously a very difficult day for Vermont and for the many people, myself included, who are so invested in growing jobs and economic opportunity in the Northeast Kingdom," said Gov. Peter Shumlin, D-Vermont.

    Governor Shumlin is defending his administration's oversight. The administration insists that without the country's best-regulated program in the country, they may never have gotten to the bottom of the alleged scheme. But after Thursday's revelations, convincing investors to bring their green to the Green Mountain State won't be easier.

    "The fraud allegedly began on Day One," Shumlin said.

    Shumlin told the media he does not expect job losses, given a Kansas City company will take over operations, but says a planned bio-research lab and downtown redevelopment project in Newport won't move forward.

    "My commitment as governor is to do everything that I can to protect these Vermonters' jobs and the investors who are victims of these allegations," Shumlin said.

    The governor says Vermont's EB-5 program remains one of the strongest and best-regulated in the country. But the crown jewel, which he marveled over in press conferences and State of the State speeches, has lost its shine.


  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    edited April 2016 Posts: 251
    Great flow chart for the money on this article...



    Will the managing company ditch the "Q" in Q Burke now? 
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    edited April 2016 Posts: 561
    Shumlin is getting nervous: http://vtdigger.org/2016/04/15/governors-office-asks-that-old-emails-be-destroyed/

    and



    Feds have been sniffing around for a while, though not a big secret.
    Start peeling back the onion...follow the money and the electronic trail. That 'flow of funds' diagram is mind blowing...though short on specifics?
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 956
    appears that spirograph drawing may have a few more entanglements?
  • bubblecufferbubblecuffer advanced
    Posts: 240
    >>Shumlin told the media he does not expect job losses

    What?  Really?  How many people were just laid off at Burke?
  • tededetedede advanced
    Posts: 108

    >>Shumlin told the media he does not expect job losses


    What?  Really?  How many people were just laid off at Burke?
    Yeah, and because he's a D the media doesn't challenge him.
  • powderstudpowderstud intermediate
    Posts: 34
    tedede said:

    >>Shumlin told the media he does not expect job losses


    What?  Really?  How many people were just laid off at Burke?
    Yeah, and because he's a D the media doesn't challenge him.
    Tedede, you never fail to disappoint.  Thanks for the hearty laugh!  :)
  • tededetedede advanced
    Posts: 108

    Tedede, you never fail to disappoint.  Thanks for the hearty laugh!  :)

    Oh c'mon, if it was a republican governor they'd be all "Bush lied people died" over a comment like that.


  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,548
    NELSBEER says "The way EB-5 works Mount Snow has 5 years at a 1% interest rate to build, market & realize enough $ to pay back the investors. I think year 6 its 4% interest, year 7 is 7% and then they have to pay off the principle."

    I'm not understanding fully how this EB-5 program is supposed to work in respect to the "investor". I started reading the USCIS site and others, but my eyes started to glaze over. Some media sources have called this basically buying a green card or a green card sale. Originally I guess I had assumed that they were just paying for a green card. But it sounds like they are making an investment for 5-10 years that may or may not return their principal plus interest and get them a green card? What kind of interest do they typically earn?
    I guess what kinda clued me in is when one of the "investors" said he wasn't worried about the Jay scandal because he (the investor) still owned plenty of assets at Jay that could be sold to pay him back. I think he should worry if he's still in the 2 year probation period for his permanent card.





    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • NELSBEERNELSBEER advanced
    Posts: 200
    Ted,

    Governors both R & D  and a whole lot of other politicians & people were drawn into this. More of a case of "Fooling all the people, some of the time, Most some of the time but not all the people all the time...", - they got caught.

    The politicos are all taking steps back rapidly having realized that what seemed too good to be true, wasn't.

    It at least sounds like the powers are trying to preserve the assets by keeping the core business running as seamlessly as possible. I wonder if they waited until the end of ski season for the takeover to minimize the impact?

    The real test of officials is just starting, can they preserve any Northeast Kingdom progress realized to date?

    Ski-it,
    In return for their investment they get the green card & 1% interest for 5 years, higher interest in years 6 &7 and then their investment is returned, if everything goes right. Mount Snow's website has nice explanations of the process, EB-5 is on the main webpage.

    If everything goes wrong the fine print comes into play, we all glaze over and their is a renaissance of law offices in the Northeast Kingdom. SJers then have a great time getting snarky about ex-politicians (R & D) profiting working in those law offices. 

     



  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,548
    Thanks for the clarification NELSBEER. So if everything goes right it is a Loan for a Green Card not a Green Card for Sale. It sounded like from the USCIS site there were different paybacks & time frames for different projects in different states. You can also open your own business I believe. And I guess I don't have a problem with the basic premise of EB-5, but anytime big money AND/OR the government is involved, watch out.

    NELSAP quote, "My inlaws live in Newport VT. This project destroyed an entire city block downtown, for "redevelopment". Based on all this, guessing it is going to be empty for a long long time."


    OMG - The Boston Globe published two pics yesterday of the downtown destruction. IDK when they were taken, but that must have destroyed the character of the downtown area. I hope that's not what it looks like today. I haven't stayed there in a long, long time (the diner was still open) but I didn't think those blocks were that run down. They couldn't have located this Bio-Park anywhere else in town on open land?
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 561
    I think the industrial 'bio park' was outside of town, closer to the airport. This was to have been a convention center, with retail and housing.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 956
    A convention center in Newport Vermont.   Sounds absurd if you think about it, but I suppose people invest in crazier things every day.    Then again, Burlington was hardly a desirable location 40 years ago so who knows what the future will bring.
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 251

    A convention center in Newport Vermont.   Sounds absurd if you think about it, but I suppose people invest in crazier things every day.    Then again, Burlington was hardly a desirable location 40 years ago so who knows what the future will bring.

    Right on. When this first came down the first comment my wife was "Wait, what? Where?" It's a beautiful small town on a pretty lake but it's far, far off of the beaten path for anyone to want to get to-- it always seemed to be more theory than practice. 
    I remember when a few years ago there were "big" plans to put in some kind of commercial aviation maintenance facility at Plattburgh. The company would service jumbos and other kind of large aircraft. Needless to say it went nowhere fast though there were a lot of promises and pretty drawings. No one thought to ask an airline "Would you bring your planes here?"
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • Posts: 1,798
    ski_it said:

    OMG - The Boston Globe published two pics yesterday of the downtown destruction. IDK when they were taken, but that must have destroyed the character of the downtown area. I hope that's not what it looks like today. I haven't stayed there in a long, long time (the diner was still open) but I didn't think those blocks were that run down. They couldn't have located this Bio-Park anywhere else in town on open land?
    I believe that it does still look like that. Here's a good before and after from Google Street View:imageimage
    - Sam
    Screenshot 2016-04-23 at 7.05.44 AM.png
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    Screenshot 2016-04-23 at 7.05.59 AM.png
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  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 790
    I think the downtown Newport is a separate project from the bio bit. It was my understanding the pit was to be a convention center, shops, and housing.
  • bobbuttsbobbutts intermediate
    Posts: 80

    Tedede, you never fail to disappoint.  Thanks for the hearty laugh!  :)



    Oh c'mon, if it was a republican governor they'd be all "Bush lied people died" over a comment like that.


    Let it go and take the politics elsewhere please.


    "FOX News Channel (FNC) has been the number one cable news network in total viewers in both Total Day and Primetime for 53 consecutive quarters and 159 consecutive months. FNC is up 10 percent in the first quarter of 2015 versus the first quarter of 2014 in adults 25-54, the key news demographic.

    In all of cable, FNC ranks fourth in primetime and total day among total viewers in the first quarter, behind only ESPN and TBS."

  • MissDaEastMissDaEast intermediate
    Posts: 56
    Well, what I want to know is, if they are able to save Burke, can we at least get rid of the "Q" part of the name????  
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 790
    The receiver won't spend a dime on rebranding especially as it's still technically owned by Q Resorts.  Once the lawsuit works its way through the courts and there's a new owner, I'm certain it'll be rebranded back to just Burke.
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 251
    How about "The area formerly known as Q Burke?"

    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • Schweig_1Schweig_1 intermediate
    Posts: 37
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    Burke.jpg
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  • tededetedede advanced
    edited April 2016 Posts: 108
    bobbutts said:

    Let it go and take the politics elsewhere please.

    Face it,  it's government nonfeasance that is causing Mt. Snow's problems, and malfeasance that allowed Burke to end up where it's at.   As much as you'd like politics to be elsewhere, it is a major player in VT's EB5's woes.

    And I have no idea why you're presenting Fox news' ratings.  Are they covering Burke?


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