Q Burke disaster

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  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 113
    My mother-in-law shared this photo from the Main Street Pit Eradication Forum...as they posted, trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

    image

    Jeremy
  • ski_itski_it expert
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,497
    That looks like pretty shoddy work. Why didn't they remove all the foundations, septic and other underground infrastructure and level the site? Well hopefully they will move forward with something in the near future.
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    Excellent summary articles here: http://vtdigger.org/fullimagestory/jay-peaks-path-fraud/

    What a mess...
  • tededetedede advanced
    edited April 2016 Posts: 106
    Michael Gibson, a registered financial EB-5 advisor who has written extensively about the immigrant investor program, says that if the state had reviewed the financials from the beginning, “They would have discovered in one hour or less, the misappropriation of funds.”

    Gee, you're loaning hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody thinks, "Huh, maybe an audit would be in order".

    Perfect example of why the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers.
  • z1000307470z1000307470 intermediate
    Posts: 67
    bmwskier said:

    A convention center in Newport Vermont.   Sounds absurd if you think about it, but I suppose people invest in crazier things every day.    Then again, Burlington was hardly a desirable location 40 years ago so who knows what the future will bring.

    Right on. When this first came down the first comment my wife was "Wait, what? Where?" It's a beautiful small town on a pretty lake but it's far, far off of the beaten path for anyone to want to get to-- it always seemed to be more theory than practice. 
    I remember when a few years ago there were "big" plans to put in some kind of commercial aviation maintenance facility at Plattburgh. The company would service jumbos and other kind of large aircraft. Needless to say it went nowhere fast though there were a lot of promises and pretty drawings. No one thought to ask an airline "Would you bring your planes here?"
    Plattsburg Airport has a 12,000 foot runway, a huge amount of concrete to store the planes, no time restrictions on take offs and landings, year around calm weather, rail connections to NYC, Montreal, and Port of Montreal, close access to I-87 (The Northway) and is in a tax free zone for international trade and a NYS Empire Zone. It is also 1 hour from Montreal. The infrastructure already existed. That is why a commercial aviation maint facility was proposed.  
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    Yep. Jim Douglas really misjudged the EB-5 program when he supported it in this project in '09. Bad move it seems and folks have been asleep at the wheel since then.

    EB-5 seems to have worked fine with Sugarbush and Von Trapp projects, but when folks committed to criminal activity got involved, it went south. 
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 240
    It was a good plan, Z but despite the great infrastructure when the proposal came down the pike the developers were vague about what companies would send their planes there. I remember watching newscaster after newscaster talking about all you said but the developers wouldn't really come out with "who" and "when". 

    While all of that is true-- the care and feeding of large aircraft takes up a lot of outdoor space and the weather in Plattsburgh isn't conducive to that year round. A classmate of mine is a colonel in the USAF and was in charge of a maintenance squadron for KC-135's. She couldn't understand what they were thinking either. They try to do all of their work in the south, preferably in the desert where they could count on outdoor temps and most importantly not snow and rain. Costs a lot to defrost a plane and costs a lot to heat a large hangar to do work as well. 
    Either way, it failed and now there is that beautiful runway there for someone. 
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • z1000307470z1000307470 intermediate
    Posts: 67
    bmwskier said:

    It was a good plan, Z but despite the great infrastructure when the proposal came down the pike the developers were vague about what companies would send their planes there. I remember watching newscaster after newscaster talking about all you said but the developers wouldn't really come out with "who" and "when". 


    While all of that is true-- the care and feeding of large aircraft takes up a lot of outdoor space and the weather in Plattsburgh isn't conducive to that year round. A classmate of mine is a colonel in the USAF and was in charge of a maintenance squadron for KC-135's. She couldn't understand what they were thinking either. They try to do all of their work in the south, preferably in the desert where they could count on outdoor temps and most importantly not snow and rain. Costs a lot to defrost a plane and costs a lot to heat a large hangar to do work as well. 
    Either way, it failed and now there is that beautiful runway there for someone. 
    The weather for outdoor maint was/is an issue. But if the place came super cheap then somebody might have been able to make it work. It is a calculation plus you need the business. Obviously it didn't work. It is a shame they cannot figure how to get more commercial traffic out of Montreal. I have a buddy who flies for Fed Ex and he said flying in and out of Plattsburgh is a cakewalk. 
  • hiemsmanhiemsman novice
    Posts: 7
    Well, this appears to have gone from bad to worse:

    http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2016/04/25/jay-peak-could-close-q-burke-may-never-open/83501858/

    Jay Peak ski resort could shut down; Q Burke Hotel may never open.

    Those are the dire conclusions reached by Michael Goldberg, the attorney appointed by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to take over the Vermont properties as receiver after allegations of fraud against the erstwhile owners of the resorts, Bill Stenger and Ariel Quiros, were filed in a Miami federal court on April 14.

  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 240
    Holy Canadian bacon, Batman! That article was frightening-- not just the implications for Jay and Burke but also for the community-- workers, vendors and guests. And for Q to ask for that kind of cash for living expenses. He wants more per month than I make in a year and a half. Perhaps time to downsize to say, an 8 x 12 cell? 

    No matter what, it's more than a trainwreck for the region. To top it off, he apparently lied about revenue and the tram needs major work? Ouch...
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • NELSAPNELSAP advanced
    Posts: 113
    I bet he'll never serve jail time - maybe 2-3 months of "community service" followed by a $25,000 fine. We should all take bets on what the final punishment, if any, will be.
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    Martha Stewart did a few months in a federal country club.  This crime is far worse than hers.
  • tededetedede advanced
    Posts: 106
    obienick said:

    Martha Stewart did a few months in a federal country club.  This crime is far worse than hers.

    She didn't do it for the act, she did it for lying to federal investigators.
  • bmwskierbmwskier advanced
    Posts: 240
    Since the article came out they backed off a bit. Jay's not going to close and apparently some major hotel chains would want to buy the Burke Hotel. 
    "Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." 
    Greg Stump
  • TomWhiteTomWhite advanced
    Posts: 334

    ropeways.net | Home | 2016-04-22

    Leisure Hotels and Resorts to Manage Jay Peak

    Jay Peak Resort  announced that Leisure Hotels and Resorts (LHR) has been brought in to run daily operations. The Kansas-based resort-management company will oversee day-to-day business along with a Jay Peak management team while current ownership works with the Security and Exchange Commission on its continuing investigation of the federal EB5 program. Jay Peak owners Bill Stenger and Ariel Quiros are no longer responsible for day-to-day operations of Jay Peak and Q Burke Resorts until the SEC matter is concluded. That investigation will not affect resort operations in any way. 

    “Our focus is on keeping Jay Peak open and vibrant,” said Steve Olson, Leisure Hotels and Resorts’ Chief Executive Officer. “No one’s job is at stake and the resort will run normally. After meeting with Jay Peak management we know we have one last big weekend of the ski season in front of us, and then we will focus on what looks to be a record summer.”

    Olson also announced that Steve Wright, Jay Peak’s long-time Chief Marketing Officer, had been named General Manager. Wright, along with a small team from LHR, will run daily resort operations. 

    “I’m looking forward to working with the LHR team as we transition through this time,” said Wright. “We’ve built a great team of people here at Jay Peak and am looking forward to a summer that has over 60 weddings booked, concerts in the amphitheater, and a busy golf season.”
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    And maybe it is puking snow up there right now, as it is in CVT?
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    This is gruesome: http://vtdigger.org/2016/04/26/goldberg-jay-peak-financials-dire/


    GOLDBERG: JAY PEAK FINANCIALS DIRE

    If he isn’t able to find more money soon, Goldberg says he will have to shut down Jay Peak and “eliminate any possibility of Q Burke opening.”

    Goldberg says there is insufficient cash in company accounts to meet operational costs in the off-season. About $4.7 million is now left in bank accounts, most of which is frozen under the SEC order. Goldberg says he needs $7 million to $11 million to run the operation during the off-season from May to October.

  • hiemsmanhiemsman novice
    Posts: 7
    They've toned down the outlook:

    Key points:
    • The Vermont ski resort at the center of a federal securities fraud case will remain open into the next ski season, despite warnings last week it was losing money, a court-appointed receiver said Monday.
    • he will borrow money from frozen accounts tied to the resort and has found about $1.6 million in a Canadian bank to finance the day-to-day operations.
    • “We can’t close it because the value would be shot.”
    • Jay Peak needs at least $7 million to operate through the offseason and must finance a $4.15 million gondola repair project.
    • Quiros added a Q to Burke Mountain’s name when he bought it, but Goldberg said the mountain will revert to its former name.

  • powderstudpowderstud intermediate
    Posts: 34
    I read the report.  Wow.  But a question came to mind:  Gondola repair project?  Jay doesn't have a gondola.  They must be referring to the Tram.  Or do they mean the high-speed quad, a.k.a. the Freezer?

    Rumor has it that Burke is going to be renamed from Q Burke to R Burke.  :)

  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    Yes, they're referring to the tram.  Trams are occasionally called gondolas and cable cars as trams could refer to trolleys (like the Green Line).
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    Q dropped: from VTDigger: Meanwhile, the resort will be renamed Burke Mountain, and the “Q” will be scrubbed from marketing materials, letterhead and signage at the resort.

    “It’s going to happen in the next week there are so many Qs on that property, every bed has a Q on it,” Goldberg said. “That will be phased out over time but in the marketing materials and main signage you’ll see that change the Q will be dropped.”


  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 935

    next quote from the article:

    “It’s ready to open, there’s grease in the fry cookers, there’s flour in the bins. Everything is brand new and it’s beautiful,”

    From the ashes of disaster grow the roses of success!
  • BetsyBetsy intermediate
    Posts: 65
    Hopefully Ernie Pomerleau (developer out of Burlington, Newport native) will step in and fill that hole in Newport. What a disgrace.
    Location: Greater Burlington, VT
  • djspookmandjspookman advanced
    Posts: 287
    No more Q at Burke!
    Burke Mtn is back.jpg
    480 x 360 - 47K
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 523
    ThanQ Goodness! ;))
  • ski_itski_it expert
    Posts: 1,497
    Ok I understand everyone's hate of the Q but why would the receiver immediately change the name? Doesn't this have to go thru the courts first? And isn't a name change going to cost money?
    ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
  • MissDaEastMissDaEast intermediate
    Posts: 56
    The receiver feels that the removal of the Q is a necessary symbolic measure.  He should offer Q items for sale to people at the Quechee Club;  I'll bet they would buy a lot of them!


  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 762
    Isn't that the old sign in the pic?  Perhaps the receiver found the old stuff lying around somewhere.

    Also there's been a lot of hate for the last few years' of management, especially with snowmaking.  The receiver may fell this change is necessary to bring back pissed off customers.
  • NELSBEERNELSBEER advanced
    edited April 2016 Posts: 194
    The elimination of the Q and maintenance of stable operating resorts are part of maximizing proceeds from the resort sales. The more the receiver can realize from their sale the better off the investors, the staff and the politicians are {R,D & S(Socialist)} - did I forget anyone TedE? 

    The fate of the EB-5 investors, their Green Cards and their money will be interesting to watch.
      
    There is now an official website for the receivership.


    Shall we start the speculation about who will buy Jay/Burke?  Vail, Peak or maybe AIG to supplement Stowe?

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