As someone who was ALL about WV in the SJ1.0 days, learned to snowboard, introduced a lot of friends to the sport, and fell in love with riding there I get it. Like others have said, it's just a bit outclassed. The High Country pod is fun, but 85% of the time a total wind swept nightmare and when you realize that it used to be classic tight trails it's infuriating. Back then the parks were also a major part of the resort and bringing in crowds with big events and a great park, that is not going on today.
In the 17 years since I first went to WV barely anything has changed. NO NEW LIFTS. 17 YEARS! And it is not as though when I showed up as a kid back then all the lifts were shiny and new. They were already aging a bit back then except for Quadzilla and White Peaks. And as a snowboarder losing the double for a T Bar is a loss. Green Peak was needed just to stay somewhat relevant. I would say Burke and Pico are in a very similar situation being just a bit outclassed.
The sad part is back in say 04/05 Waterville was right there with Loon. If Green Peak was built then around the time of South Peak at Loon they could be installing a gondola to the summit from Town Square right now instead of moving the world's slowest triple(unless the thinking here was always "we'll get ten years out of World Cup and that's enough time to do the gondola and then the triple is just insurance").
Burke being outclassed? None of their lifts are more than 20 years old and they have a huge new hotel.
Compared to Killington, Jay Peak, Okemo, Sunday River, Sugarloaf, Mount Snow, Sugarbush, etc Burke is very much second class. Hence why it has struggled so much for most of its life and now the place might need even more work before a buyer can be found.
There are a number of great areas like Burke, that are so far off the beaten track that they don't get the traffic. Location, location, location. Burke almost went under about a decade ago.
I hate this thread concept. I can't even think that way. But just to play along....I guess if I listed all these places in terms of "best" something would land at the bottom of the list and therefore be considered "worst". Okemo would land that spot. Because I don't like the terrain. Otherwise I really have nothing against the place.
I hate this thread concept. I can't even think that way. But just to play along....I guess if I listed all these places in terms of "best" something would land at the bottom of the list and therefore be considered "worst". Okemo would land that spot. Because I don't like the terrain. Otherwise I really have nothing against the place.
I agree, I can’t bring myself to say that any ski area is the “worst”.
Piling on about Killington and Waterville. K skis like five Wachusetts next to each other, only even more crowded (and charges you frickin' $119 for the experience). I'll add Sunday River for the same reason. I like long, uninterrupted runs and both places have very limited places to do that. And Waterville is just boring and tired. Loon would be awesome if it wasn't the closest >2K mountain to Boston and thus unbelievably crowded on weekends. Keeps the crowds away from Cannon though, so that's nice.
Interesting. I guess the consensus is in. I get a kick out the comments of those who couldn't select an area to put on this list, but felt the need to comment.
And ceo's comment "K(illington) skis like five Wachusetts next to each other, only even more crowded (and charges you frickin' $119 for the experience)." Brings to mind my favorite skiing oxymoron: "No one skis there. It's too crowded!" As to the $119 day ticket cost: My Killington season pass for last year came out to a bit under $21 per day.
All that being said, I think we can agree that Waterville Valley and Killington were the consensus losers on this thread.
There’s a Vertigo or a Ovation or a Outer Limits at WaWa?? I must have missed them.
Ok I kinda get where you are going with that but I’m not climbing for my turns.
Wait a minute JS... read what you wrote again. your summary could be construed (by channel 7) as a blog of expert skiers picked Killington and Loon as the worse areas in the northeast.
Bill29 had it right if you add midweek. I hit the quadfecta at Hunter last season (from what I’m told since I was a virgin).
But this is all great!! Makes me want to go skiing!!! My local ski shop just reopened too!
ISNE-I Skied New England | NESAP-the New England Ski Area Project | SOSA-Saving Our Ski Areas - Location SW of Boston MA
1. Worst for nearby accommodations Jay has the legendary Grampa Grunts, which has to count for something Sunday River is woefully short of affordable accommodations on most weekends Gore doesn't have much. 2. Worst for trail layout Loon due to the transfer lift required. I guess that would apply to Sugarbush as well, however I still think of them as two areas. Jay should get honorable mention because an entire trail system requires either a ride on the Freezer or a long line for the tram, and while the tram may be iconic, it is neither charming nor practical. 3. Worst for snow quality/quantity/grooming Gore and Whiteface (although the grooming is generally good on groomed trails) 4. Worst to get to I guess that depends on your point of view. If you live in Quebec, Jay is easy to get to. From New Jersey, not so much. 5. Other Smuggler's has slow lifts and is off the beaten path (at least for me) Okemo is overpriced. Killington is crowded
I really can't say there's a "worst" area because in a way, they're all good. And to borrow from Bill29 above, when all the lifts are running etc. they're all good. And if it's Wednesday, they're wonderful!
For a long time I considered Killington my favorite ski area in the Northeast. Some of that is sentimental. It was the first ski area I ever skied outside the mid-Atlantic. Outer Limits and Great Eastern impressed the heck out of me in their own special ways. I skied Killington about eight different trips between 1976 and 2001. I haven't been back since 2001 - just so many other places to see and ski:-) But on a quiet day with good snow it offers a lot of fun, variety and challenge.
I guess my favorite place in the Northeast now is Wildcat because of the scenery, snow, and intimate yet liberating feeling that you can get almost anything you want from long green circle runs to beautiful blue square cruisers to challenging bumps and glades off that one great HSQ chairlift.
JimK makes a lot of great points. The 2 things that put Killington on top of my list: 1. proximity (2 hrs. no better skiing IMO closer to where I live); If one is driving six hours, the extra hour to get to Sugarbush is no big deal. If one is only traveling 2 hours, the extra hour puts it out of day-trip range for me.
2. Early season/late season: No area with better terrain provides the kind of early/late season product that Killington provides - although Mt. Snow gave it a good shot last season to open early with more terrain than Killington by the first weekend of the season.
While Killington has Superb terrain, there many other areas among the 2K+ vertical ski areas that have superior terrain. So it makes sense that if proximity and the early/late season product is not something of interest, Killington would not be at the top of your list.
For a long time I considered Killington my favorite ski area in the Northeast. Some of that is sentimental. It was the first ski area I ever skied outside the mid-Atlantic. Outer Limits and Great Eastern impressed the heck out of me in their own special ways. I skied Killington about eight different trips between 1976 and 2001. I haven't been back since 2001 - just so many other places to see and ski:-) But on a quiet day with good snow it offers a lot of fun, variety and challenge.
I guess my favorite place in the Northeast now is Wildcat because of the scenery, snow, and intimate yet liberating feeling that you can get almost anything you want from long green circle runs to beautiful blue square cruisers to challenging bumps and glades off that one great HSQ chairlift.
This is the best "worst of" post ever! Only discusses why 2 places are the best/favorite and completely dismisses the concept of worst. Wish I had gone that route. Kudos JimK!
For a long time I considered Killington my favorite ski area in the Northeast. Some of that is sentimental. It was the first ski area I ever skied outside the mid-Atlantic. Outer Limits and Great Eastern impressed the heck out of me in their own special ways. I skied Killington about eight different trips between 1976 and 2001. I haven't been back since 2001 - just so many other places to see and ski:-) But on a quiet day with good snow it offers a lot of fun, variety and challenge.
I guess my favorite place in the Northeast now is Wildcat because of the scenery, snow, and intimate yet liberating feeling that you can get almost anything you want from long green circle runs to beautiful blue square cruisers to challenging bumps and glades off that one great HSQ chairlift.
This is the best "worst of" post ever! Only discusses why 2 places are the best/favorite and completely dismisses the concept of worst. Wish I had gone that route. Kudos JimK!
My bad. I let it get off topic and then fed the hijack.
Although this thread is almost dead, I'd like to throw my hat in to another contender who hasn't been mentioned as much: Sunday River. Crowded? Generally. Expensive? Why not. Series of independent trail pods masquerading as real vertical drop? Yep Long drive from a major metro? Sure. Wide runs with little/no character? Plenty. Nearly nonexistent off-mountain activities? Got that. Beaten up mountain lodges that look like they were cheaply built some time ago? Uhuh. Trailside condos up the wazoo? Oh boy. Challenging terrain? Not much.
I can't say I'd refuse to go there - when it comes to skiing when I'm jonesing, I'm reminded of the expression, "any port in a storm..." That said, Sunday River has Killington tied in terms of times I've walked away from a day feeling "meh."
For me, it's Killington, for the sheer number of times I've been hit behind from behind and then received an earful about "getting in their way". I just spent a couple of days in Manhattan, which refreshed my memory.
For me, it's Killington, for the sheer number of times I've been hit behind from behind and then received an earful about "getting in their way". I just spent a couple of days in Manhattan, which refreshed my memory.
Agree! That's why I avoid Killington between Dec. 15 and Mar. 15. I was there 28 days in 2017-8, but only 4 days between Dec. 15 and Mar. 15.
Actually, I like Sunday River too. It's wide layout over many peaks is similar to Killington and I found it rather pleasant when I was there in the 2016-7 season.
A classmate of mine and I were skiing at Sugarbush on one of our reunion weekends. We were halfway up Bravo when he commented that if he had known about how beautiful the view was at Sugarbush vs Sunday River, he'd would have built his family ski house there rather than in Maine.
I only skied Sunday River once. Didn't get around enough to form an opinion. It, like Loon, Wildcat, Sugarloaf and Pico are areas I want to hit again to jog my memory.
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Killington's not my favorite but I agree with joshua_segal about sticking to pods. I've had my most enjoyable days there lapping one or two pods all day, and my least favorite memories are days when we try to ski the whole mountain.
Really, it's just looker's left to right.
While I respect your opinion, as well as Joshua's, my opinion runs counter to your philosophy. If I were to stick to lapping one pod (For argument's sake, lets use Snowdon since it's probably the largest, most developed, and offers trails for all abilities) then I would essentially be skiing a medium ski area with a 1114 foot vertical, and three lifts, (two chairs, one poma). Coming from NJ, there are many ski resorts that are closer to me that offer a larger vertical drop, more lifts, and a greater variety of trials than I would have by limiting myself to Snowdon, or any one pod. I don't want to drive four hours for that when I can do better and cut my driving time in half. I don't mind the drive if I am getting something better than that, which many resorts on Joshua's list offer. Again, it doesn't make me right or you wrong, but that is my opinion.
This argument doesn't make sense to me. Very few major areas offer full 2k vert from one lift. Jay is one of my favorite areas but I almost never ski from the summit for its not really 2k vert. Some days at Jay, I'll only ski the Jet all day long at 1300' vert or so. Some of my best days ever were just lapping the Jet all day.
Although this thread is almost dead, I'd like to throw my hat in to another contender who hasn't been mentioned as much: Sunday River. Crowded? Generally. Expensive? Why not. Series of independent trail pods masquerading as real vertical drop? Yep Long drive from a major metro? Sure. Wide runs with little/no character? Plenty. Nearly nonexistent off-mountain activities? Got that. Beaten up mountain lodges that look like they were cheaply built some time ago? Uhuh. Trailside condos up the wazoo? Oh boy. Challenging terrain? Not much.
I can't say I'd refuse to go there - when it comes to skiing when I'm jonesing, I'm reminded of the expression, "any port in a storm..." That said, Sunday River has Killington tied in terms of times I've walked away from a day feeling "meh."
Oh boy, I am going to be an apologist for K and SR in the same thread!
I don't ski SR much... only early season before other areas open. Trail pod skiing is A-O-K in my book. The vert per peak is respectable. Many big resorts don't have any real runs longer than 1500 and that is fine vert for a single run. 2k vert elitists need to check it.
SR has lots of runs that are not too wide and a few that are quite narrow. Of course, they have the White Heat. But a LOT of their trails are narrower than average with lots of twists and turns.
While I wouldn't pay mid-winter rates for it, I really want to get back to SR sometime as they have a few REALLY good lift line trails. Oz and Jordan liftlines are fabulous and Agony is an excellent bump run.
The most challenging area it ain't. But I know I could have a good time there on a discounted voucher mid-week.
Besides great snowmaking the other thing SR has going for it is although there aren't 2K plus vert runs there are minimal interruptions ie crossings, different trails stitched together, etc. A lot of them are very enjoyable in that regard.
Killington's not my favorite but I agree with joshua_segal about sticking to pods. I've had my most enjoyable days there lapping one or two pods all day, and my least favorite memories are days when we try to ski the whole mountain.
Really, it's just looker's left to right.
While I respect your opinion, as well as Joshua's, my opinion runs counter to your philosophy. If I were to stick to lapping one pod (For argument's sake, lets use Snowdon since it's probably the largest, most developed, and offers trails for all abilities) then I would essentially be skiing a medium ski area with a 1114 foot vertical, and three lifts, (two chairs, one poma). Coming from NJ, there are many ski resorts that are closer to me that offer a larger vertical drop, more lifts, and a greater variety of trials than I would have by limiting myself to Snowdon, or any one pod. I don't want to drive four hours for that when I can do better and cut my driving time in half. I don't mind the drive if I am getting something better than that, which many resorts on Joshua's list offer. Again, it doesn't make me right or you wrong, but that is my opinion.
This argument doesn't make sense to me. Very few major areas offer full 2k vert from one lift. Jay is one of my favorite areas but I almost never ski from the summit for its not really 2k vert. Some days at Jay, I'll only ski the Jet all day long at 1300' vert or so. Some of my best days ever were just lapping the Jet all day.
My argument is that the 1,100 foot vertical drop offered by Snowdon is similar to what I can get at Mountain Creek in NJ (as well as 3 pods inked together by annoying connecting runs) . I don't need to drive 4+ hours for the same thing. I don't know where/why you get the 2k vertical claim from either. However, I would like more than 1,100 feet. I can find greater than that at Bromley, Burke, Mt. Snow, Jay, MRG, Okemo, Pico, Stowe, Stratton, Sugarbush (North or South), Magic, and Smuggs. Some offer greater than 2k, but all offer more than 1,110.
Killington's not my favorite but I agree with joshua_segal about sticking to pods. I've had my most enjoyable days there lapping one or two pods all day, and my least favorite memories are days when we try to ski the whole mountain.
Really, it's just looker's left to right.
While I respect your opinion, as well as Joshua's, my opinion runs counter to your philosophy. If I were to stick to lapping one pod (For argument's sake, lets use Snowdon since it's probably the largest, most developed, and offers trails for all abilities) then I would essentially be skiing a medium ski area with a 1114 foot vertical, and three lifts, (two chairs, one poma). Coming from NJ, there are many ski resorts that are closer to me that offer a larger vertical drop, more lifts, and a greater variety of trials than I would have by limiting myself to Snowdon, or any one pod. I don't want to drive four hours for that when I can do better and cut my driving time in half. I don't mind the drive if I am getting something better than that, which many resorts on Joshua's list offer. Again, it doesn't make me right or you wrong, but that is my opinion.
This argument doesn't make sense to me. Very few major areas offer full 2k vert from one lift. Jay is one of my favorite areas but I almost never ski from the summit for its not really 2k vert. Some days at Jay, I'll only ski the Jet all day long at 1300' vert or so. Some of my best days ever were just lapping the Jet all day.
My argument is that the 1,100 foot vertical drop offered by Snowdon is similar to what I can get at Mountain Creek in NJ (as well as 3 pods inked together by annoying connecting runs) . I don't need to drive 4+ hours for the same thing. I don't know where/why you get the 2k vertical claim from either. However, I would like more than 1,100 feet. I can find greater than that at Bromley, Burke, Mt. Snow, Jay, MRG, Okemo, Pico, Stowe, Stratton, Sugarbush (North or South), Magic, and Smuggs. Some offer greater than 2k, but all offer more than 1,110.
This makes no sense. The K1, Superstar, and spe all have significantly more vertical than Snowdon and Mt. Creek. It's like me saying I don't bother with Pico because Pat's Peak is better than their A lift.
Comments
Despite my ramblings against Killington, I do like the place. I like all the places on the list, some more than others, so there is no worst.
And Waterville is just boring and tired. Loon would be awesome if it wasn't the closest >2K mountain to Boston and thus unbelievably crowded on weekends. Keeps the crowds away from Cannon though, so that's nice.
And ceo's comment "K(illington) skis like five Wachusetts next to each other, only even more crowded (and charges you frickin' $119 for the experience)." Brings to mind my favorite skiing oxymoron: "No one skis there. It's too crowded!" As to the $119 day ticket cost: My Killington season pass for last year came out to a bit under $21 per day.
All that being said, I think we can agree that Waterville Valley and Killington were the consensus losers on this thread.
Ok I kinda get where you are going with that but I’m not climbing for my turns.
Wait a minute JS... read what you wrote again. your summary could be construed (by channel 7) as a blog of expert skiers picked Killington and Loon as the worse areas in the northeast.
Bill29 had it right if you add midweek. I hit the quadfecta at Hunter last season (from what I’m told since I was a virgin).
But this is all great!! Makes me want to go skiing!!! My local ski shop just reopened too!
Jay has the legendary Grampa Grunts, which has to count for something
Sunday River is woefully short of affordable accommodations on most weekends
Gore doesn't have much.
2. Worst for trail layout
Loon due to the transfer lift required. I guess that would apply to Sugarbush as
well, however I still think of them as two areas. Jay should get honorable mention because an entire trail system requires either a ride on the Freezer or a long line for the tram, and while the tram may be iconic, it is neither charming nor practical.
3. Worst for snow quality/quantity/grooming
Gore and Whiteface (although the grooming is generally good on groomed trails)
4. Worst to get to
I guess that depends on your point of view. If you live in Quebec, Jay is easy to get to. From New Jersey, not so much.
5. Other
Smuggler's has slow lifts and is off the beaten path (at least for me)
Okemo is overpriced. Killington is crowded
I really can't say there's a "worst" area because in a way, they're all good. And to borrow from Bill29 above, when all the lifts are running etc. they're all good. And if it's Wednesday, they're wonderful!
I guess my favorite place in the Northeast now is Wildcat because of the scenery, snow, and intimate yet liberating feeling that you can get almost anything you want from long green circle runs to beautiful blue square cruisers to challenging bumps and glades off that one great HSQ chairlift.
1. proximity (2 hrs. no better skiing IMO closer to where I live); If one is driving six hours, the extra hour to get to Sugarbush is no big deal. If one is only traveling 2 hours, the extra hour puts it out of day-trip range for me.
2. Early season/late season: No area with better terrain provides the kind of early/late season product that Killington provides - although Mt. Snow gave it a good shot last season to open early with more terrain than Killington by the first weekend of the season.
While Killington has Superb terrain, there many other areas among the 2K+ vertical ski areas that have superior terrain. So it makes sense that if proximity and the early/late season product is not something of interest, Killington would not be at the top of your list.
Crowded? Generally.
Expensive? Why not.
Series of independent trail pods masquerading as real vertical drop? Yep
Long drive from a major metro? Sure.
Wide runs with little/no character? Plenty.
Nearly nonexistent off-mountain activities? Got that.
Beaten up mountain lodges that look like they were cheaply built some time ago? Uhuh.
Trailside condos up the wazoo? Oh boy.
Challenging terrain? Not much.
I can't say I'd refuse to go there - when it comes to skiing when I'm jonesing, I'm reminded of the expression, "any port in a storm..." That said, Sunday River has Killington tied in terms of times I've walked away from a day feeling "meh."
Actually, I like Sunday River too. It's wide layout over many peaks is similar to Killington and I found it rather pleasant when I was there in the 2016-7 season.
I only skied Sunday River once. Didn't get around enough to form an opinion. It, like Loon, Wildcat, Sugarloaf and Pico are areas I want to hit again to jog my memory.
I don't ski SR much... only early season before other areas open. Trail pod skiing is A-O-K in my book. The vert per peak is respectable. Many big resorts don't have any real runs longer than 1500 and that is fine vert for a single run. 2k vert elitists need to check it.
SR has lots of runs that are not too wide and a few that are quite narrow. Of course, they have the White Heat. But a LOT of their trails are narrower than average with lots of twists and turns.
While I wouldn't pay mid-winter rates for it, I really want to get back to SR sometime as they have a few REALLY good lift line trails. Oz and Jordan liftlines are fabulous and Agony is an excellent bump run.
The most challenging area it ain't. But I know I could have a good time there on a discounted voucher mid-week.
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