Hermitage

ski_it

I think they got a great bargain too. I'd be real unhappy if I owned a part of Berkshire Bank.

TomWhite

If I recall, there was a 10-year agreement/provisions when ASC sold Haystack. One was, Mt. Snow could only draw from Haystack’s pond in the very early season. That’s why Mt. Snow built their West Lake snowmaking pond. They first tried to get approval to draw from Somerset Reservoir. Another provision was, Haystack had to limit ticket sales. I’m sure that was a major factor in (forcing) the private ski area concept. Barnes was Haystack’s biggest problem. I’ve seen nothing about the ASC contract/restrictions in the months leading up to the auction/sale.

newpylong

Even if the restrictions have sunsetted I don't think it really matters. Haystack has very little chance of surviving as a public facility in the shadow of it's neighbor. Pico works because K owns them and it has the terrain to still draw enough people to cover operational costs.

Sully

Even if the restrictions have sunsetted I don't think it really matters. Haystack has very little chance of surviving as a public facility in the shadow of it's neighbor. Pico works because K owns them and it has the terrain to still draw enough people to cover operational costs.

I agree, unless Mount Snow keeps growing at the rate of the last two seasons.

joshua_segal

Even if the restrictions have sunsetted I don't think it really matters. Haystack has very little chance of surviving as a public facility in the shadow of it's neighbor. Pico works because K owns them and it has the terrain to still draw enough people to cover operational costs.
I agree, unless Mount Snow keeps growing at the rate of the last two seasons.

I think with the crowds at Mount Snow, there are enough crumbs leftover to keep Haystack in business.

Sully

Even if the restrictions have sunsetted I don't think it really matters. Haystack has very little chance of surviving as a public facility in the shadow of it's neighbor. Pico works because K owns them and it has the terrain to still draw enough people to cover operational costs.
I agree, unless Mount Snow keeps growing at the rate of the last two seasons.
I think with the crowds at Mount Snow, there are enough crumbs leftover to keep Haystack in business.

Especially if they have that built in customer base of the former club members that live on the grounds. Limit daily ticket sales on weekends and a low midweek price you’ll get a steady flow of people coming through.

newpylong

I hope so but wouldnt bank on it. It's a really cool little mountain actually.

marcski

I hope so but wouldnt bank on it. It's a really cool little mountain actually.

The crumbs have proven not enough for Haystack in the past. I believe the slopeside condos/village at Pico is the reason it survives with Killington next door.

joshua_segal

I hope so but wouldnt bank on it. It's a really cool little mountain actually.
The crumbs have proven not enough for Haystack in the past. I believe the slopeside condos/village at Pico is the reason it survives with Killington next door.

I think the fact that Pico is a terrific mountain (better than Haystack) with a long term following might also contribute! A T2B non-stop on the Pike might be one of the best cruisers in the east.

bmwskier

"A T2B non-stop on the Pike might be one of the best cruisers in the east."

Oh, geezum, that's an awesome run! Makes me want to get on Ebay, find a pair of late 80's-early 90's 215 cm downhill skis with the sidecut of a two by four, mount them up and wait for next season...

ski_it

Oh man I had a pair like that but 205 & gave them to the Boy Scouts to make sleds

slatham

I thought the restrictions on selling tickets are part of the deed and not short term. If correct you’d need Mt Snow (aka Vail aka the Evil Empire) to agree. Doubtful.

DrJeff

I thought the restrictions on selling tickets are part of the deed and not short term. If correct you’d need Mt Snow (aka Vail aka the Evil Empire) to agree. Doubtful.

I am not a lawyer, nor pretend to have any substantial knowledge of contract and/or real estate law outside of having signed some mortgage papers a few times over the years ;)

I wouldn't be surprised, if at some point, if legally pressed on this topic, that since there have been so many transferences of owners since that initial clause was written in with the ASC sale, that not unlike the lifetime passes at Killington and Wildcat became null and void with the transfer of ownership, that this clause may not have any remaining legal grounds remaining.

The question then would be, do the new owners/presumed new(returning) members if the club does indeed reopen, WANT outside day ticket usage?

That may be an entirely different question...

bmwskier

I'm certainly not a lawyer either, but I seem to remember all of the "lifetime" pass holders at Killington really upset when told that their agreements with the previous company were null and void with the new owners. Not sure where that went, but I would think that the precedent would be set.

ski_it

We need a real estate lawyer.
Not a lawyer so I know nothing...
but as I understand the situation; it is a land deed restriction or covenant and not a club or lifetime ski pass restriction. These kind of covenants stay in force when the land is transferred and cannot be broken easily if at all.
What I’ve also read is they cannot operate as a public ski area. They can’t sell day tickets except to 250 local town residents a day. Hermitage was skirting the issue by handing out free “guest” tickets to prospective club members or people staying in their lodging. I’d heard Barnes was planning a hotel next to the new lodge similar to the Grand Summit and their stay would include free tickets. The private club members may have also had a set number of guest tickets.
Also from these proceedings it sounded like different members had differing amenities and it wasn’t clear who had what. I can see how it ended up that way as they made different offers to entice new members or who paid different amounts. But Sounds pretty unfair.
They should have operated by having clearly defined tiers of service or something like that, don’t you think?

Chuckstah

How about one day "club memberships" that include a day ticket. Kind of like the old Utah bars and clubs that required $1 or more "membership" to purchase alcohol?

lotsoskiing

I wish them luck. I hope this succeeds, but I just don't see it, never have. Even if Barnes had not been a crook, this scenario just did not seem sustainable.

bmwskier

Well, that would suck. I've no interest in skiing Mt Snow due to the presence of the Borg, though skiing a smaller area like Haystack would be on the list.

lotsoskiing

Well, that would suck. I've no interest in skiing Mt Snow due to the presence of the Borg, though skiing a smaller area like Haystack would be on the list.

the Borg? I know it was a Star Trek character, but connection to MS?

jgreco

I would buy a Haystack Pass over any Epic option if Haystack ever reopened to public. Even if it was a shorter season and more expensive. I'd like to think there are enough people who feel the same way, to support a public Haystack, if that was ever a possibility.

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