PEAK is Epic

rickbolger

newpylong;c-37103 wroteI

No, that is obviously not always the case - varies area by area. It was a generalized comment, but one that holds a lot of water.

Based on my time running a ski area, and time spent with other area managers, there is minimal profit to be made on day tickets FOR MANY. This is especially true for destinations further from population centers. They rely heavily on passholder revenue, F&B, and other ancillary services. The day ticket is only the hook to get the person there. Areas closer to population center can take advantage of higher walk up volume, and margins will be undoubtedly be higher.

If we can put a face to a name....my hunch is places like Camelback and Mountain Creek, which get hour long ticket lines on holidays, make bank on the day trip ticket buyer. Seems to me that Berkshire East or Catamount really need to rely on passes, food, lessons, race programs and such to make their money. I've never waited on line at the latter two, so that's the impression I've had. Is that accurate (generally speaking) based on your experience?

sugarloaf

rickbolger;c-37122 wrote
newpylong;c-37103 wroteI

No, that is obviously not always the case - varies area by area. It was a generalized comment, but one that holds a lot of water.

Based on my time running a ski area, and time spent with other area managers, there is minimal profit to be made on day tickets FOR MANY. This is especially true for destinations further from population centers. They rely heavily on passholder revenue, F&B, and other ancillary services. The day ticket is only the hook to get the person there. Areas closer to population center can take advantage of higher walk up volume, and margins will be undoubtedly be higher.

If we can put a face to a name....my hunch is places like Camelback and Mountain Creek, which get hour long ticket lines on holidays, make bank on the day trip ticket buyer. Seems to me that Berkshire East or Catamount really need to rely on passes, food, lessons, race programs and such to make their money. I've never waited on line at the latter two, so that's the impression I've had. Is that accurate (generally speaking) based on your experience?

Berkshire East does alot of business with High School ski clubs skiing at night on weekdays. They get business from the Hartford/Springfield area and the Pioneer Valley. The main parking lot gets full. My son was in one senior year. It's about 1:15 minutes away from where I live, mostly on 1-91. I'm not sure what the situation is like at Catamount. They now have a reciprocal pass, so that may increase business at both places.

Closer to home we lost Woodbury and from what I read on Facebook, Powder Ridge has poor customer service and bad snowmaking. I haven't been there for skiing with the new owners, because it's expensive and South of where I live.

Ski Sundown and Mohawk have excellent snowmaking and customer service and both do a brisk businesses.

sugarloaf

sugarloaf;c-37123 wrote
rickbolger;c-37122 wrote
newpylong;c-37103 wroteI

No, that is obviously not always the case - varies area by area. It was a generalized comment, but one that holds a lot of water.

Based on my time running a ski area, and time spent with other area managers, there is minimal profit to be made on day tickets FOR MANY. This is especially true for destinations further from population centers. They rely heavily on passholder revenue, F&B, and other ancillary services. The day ticket is only the hook to get the person there. Areas closer to population center can take advantage of higher walk up volume, and margins will be undoubtedly be higher.

If we can put a face to a name....my hunch is places like Camelback and Mountain Creek, which get hour long ticket lines on holidays, make bank on the day trip ticket buyer. Seems to me that Berkshire East or Catamount really need to rely on passes, food, lessons, race programs and such to make their money. I've never waited on line at the latter two, so that's the impression I've had. Is that accurate (generally speaking) based on your experience?
Berkshire East does alot of business with High School ski clubs skiing at night on weekdays. My son was in one senior year. It's about 1:15 minutes away from where I live, mostly on 1-91. I'm not sure what the situation is like at Catamount. They now have a reciprocal pass, so that may increase business at both places.

Closer to home we lost Woodbury and from what I read on Facebook, Powder Ridge has poor customer service and bad snowmaking. I haven't been there for skiing with the new owners, because it's expensive and South of where I live.

Ski Sundown and Mohawk have excellent snowmaking, grooming and customer service, both do a brisk businesses.

rickbolger

I would lump high school groups into passes/food/race programs etc. Those kids aren't paying walk up ticket prices. In terms of walk-up ticket volume, Berkshire East would self combust if they got half the Saturday traffic Camelback sees

IBRAKEFORTBARS

ciscokid;c-37118 wroteI guess I'll stick with my $99 season weekend pass at Caberfae, right Ted? Ibrake4tbars?

With my new-found love of Park City as a part of Vail (as well as my local Boston Mills/Brandywine) I’ll do both. It takes me as long to get to Park City as it does Cabby so why not! 😂

IBRAKE

sugarloaf

rickbolger;c-37136 wroteI would lump high school groups into passes/food/race programs etc. Those kids aren't paying walk up ticket prices. In terms of walk-up ticket volume, Berkshire East would self combust if they got half the Saturday traffic Camelback sees

Living in NYC until 2006, I got to experience the insane crowding at Camelback. Also spent 30-45 minutes in line years ago at Hunter. Can't say I miss that.

My personal favorite place in that region is Elk, it's like a miniature Okemo.

Maybe not paying full price, but the volume at Berkshire East is high for an otherwise quiet time of the week. It's tour bus after tour bus unloading kids. I went up to ski with my Son a few times.

We arrived early to ski at Berkshire East in February and made the foolish decision to try Jiminy Peak. Holly crap was it incredibly crowded. All parking lots full at 9am. Drove to an empty Blandford.

rickbolger

sugarloaf;c-37140 wrote
Living in NYC until 2006, I got to experience the insane crowding at Camelback.

Ha! I was going to mention the line up on I-80 at exit 299 but you probably want to forget that

sugarloaf

rickbolger;c-37144 wrote
sugarloaf;c-37140 wrote
Living in NYC until 2006, I got to experience the insane crowding at Camelback.
Ha! I was going to mention the line up on I-80 at exit 299 but you probably want to forget that

I haven't had too many good skiing experiences in that part of the region.
Some of the worst ski condition's I ever experienced where at VV/GG. I remember skiing down Zero G with un-edgeable ice and being glad I was still alive at the bottom. Also skiing there in 1997, with South being adandoned.

ciscokid

IBRAKEFORTBARS;c-37139 wrote
ciscokid;c-37118 wroteI guess I'll stick with my $99 season weekend pass at Caberfae, right Ted? Ibrake4tbars?
With my new-found love of Park City as a part of Vail (as well as my local Boston Mills/Brandywine) I’ll do both. It takes me as long to get to Park City as it does Cabby so why not! 😂

IBRAKE

IBRAKEFORTBARS;c-37139 wrote
The weird thing is that it's 200 miles from Akron to Holiday Valley and I never saw a trip report and 400 miles to Cab
Glad you are making the big coin for a Vail owned joint. Buying a season pass?

My western day's are most likely done but I personally hit up Camelback twice in the last 10 hrs on Holidays and loved it

Glad I got to experience Crotched for a Joshua "employee" price of $35, Cranmore for $10!, Wildcat/Attitash for $60 and Black for $25. And Waterville for $41 a day wasn't too bad either.

If indeed you do PC make sure to try a day at DV, Alta/bird, Brighton and Snowbasin. The only Utah area I missed that I regret is PowMow

djaskipa68

After skiing Park City last March. Of all of the North American resorts owned by Vail. With the except of Whistler and California resorts. Park City became #2 on list, behind Breckinridge. This includes the East resorts plus Peak resorts in NY & New England.

Quietman

It looks like midnight madness at crotched will end at 1 AM this year instead of 3 AM.

NELSBEER

Staff has been told Midnight Madness' closing time has been changed to 1 am. 🕐

There has seldom been many people here after 1 (except staff). 3 am has been hard on patrol ⛑️ & lifts🚠 ; getting snowmaking, grooming and general preparation done for the next day has been a challenge. With a few extra hours you should be seeing better ski conditions & a better rested/happier staff.

🍾🍷🍕🍟🥃
The bar has traditionally been open until 1 am, no word of change to that.

🎿. 🎿. 🎿. 🎿

Of course everything is open to change with a new ownership.

The stockholders vote tommorow via proxies (Friday September 20th) and if all goes well (IMHO) the deal could be finalized next week.

xlr8r

I never understood the 3am closing time, how many people did they expect to ski till 3. 1am makes a lot more sense and is still unique.

IBRAKEFORTBARS

So has the deal between Vail and Peak Resorts actually completed?

ski_it

Nope. In the fall.

joshua_segal

Quietman;c-37610 wroteIt looks like midnight madness at crotched will end at 1 AM this year instead of 3 AM.

As far as I know, that decision was made at the end of last season and has nothing to do with the Vail buyout. My understanding is that there were very few skiers between 1 and 3 - and it was hard to get patrollers, lifties and other staff to sign up for those hours.

rickbolger

what's become of that guy in Boston who filed the suit to prevent the sale?

shpride

1am closing makes sense to me. I’ve been there until 2am a few times and by the time I left there was just a handful of skiers left. I bet those two hours make a world of difference for the staff with minimal if any lost ticket sales.

NELSBEER

Peak had done the 3am closing at many of its mid-west areas with good success and brought the practice forward when they opened Crotched. The extra 2 hours (beyond the bar's 1 am closing) never drew customers here, guess easterners don't have to be up at 4am anyway to milk the cows.

There was talk many years about cutting the hours to 1 am but the change never materialized.

The impact was more than cost over time; lifts, especially the Rocket, needed time for maintenance, there were more trails to groom, a base lodge to clean and never enough time to blow a little extra snow where it was needed. All this is tough on the staff of a fairly small ski area....

The 3 am crowd consisted of students proving how tough they were to each other (they ended up napping in the lodge) and the parents who had to show up to pick them up at 3am. The only bright spot was when fresh snow blew in and we patrollers had to go out and ski unlimited fresh powder for a few hours.

rickbolger

two more lawsuits filed, one of them by a guy named Earl M. Wheby Jr., from Florida. His hobby seems to be buying a few hundred shares of a company and then suing them when they sneeze.

Second is a guy named Eammon Carleton, Oxford MA

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