lotsoskiing
Man, it would be cool if this place came back on line, hopefully from the summit eventually, but I'll take anything:
From Adirondack Enterprise:
TUPPER LAKE — An ambitious group of Tupper Lake business and community members pitched the town on a multi-phase, multi-million-dollar plan to build out the town’s recreational infrastructure Thursday, starting with a request for the town to purchase the Big Tupper Ski Area this spring.
The Tupper Lake Business Group said it would return to the town’s December board meeting to further discuss the plan and seek the town’s investment of tax dollars.
Board members greeted the idea with excitement and support for what it would do — create, expand and improve the many recreational trails in Tupper Lake — but stopped short of saying if and how much the town would commit to such a plan. They said their first responsibility is to taxpayers.
The group pitching the idea is confident the trails can pay for themselves and bring in millions in revenue to the community annually. They see it as an investment.
“It’s going to take an investment. It’s going to be painful, like any investment,” group member and banker Mark Moeller said. “You get a mortgage to buy a house, you go into debt to go to college, but the outcome is what you’re seeking.”
The group’s plan is comprised of existing studies, old plans that never happened and new ideas for recreational trails. The whole plan comes in four phases, but they are just focusing on the first phase for now.
This phase would involve purchasing Big Tupper, connecting snowmobile trails through town, turning the James C. Frenette Sr. cross-country ski trails into year-round trails, building 10 miles of mountain biking trails on peninsulas near Rock Island Bay at the south end of Tupper Lake, and irrigating the lower six holes of the Tupper Lake Golf Course. These projects are estimated to cost a cumulative $928,000.
Moeller said they estimate this would raise taxes on a home assessed at $100,000 value by $8 to $10 a year.
Town board members said they will want to run their own numbers on these calculations.
“We have a lot of our own work to do before we can make a full financial commitment to something like this,” town Supervisor Patti Littlefield said.
“I would love to see this thing go through,” Councilwoman Tracy Luton said. “If the taxpayers would be willing to pay this, and I think most of them would be … you guys have a great plan here.”
“I wish that we had the money to move forward with everything, the whole thing,” Councilman Mike Dechene said. “I just know that monies are tight.”
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“Prime time”
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Village Community Economic Development Director Melissa McManus asked if the group would consider focusing on one area first, choosing one sport to put their energy into building out at once and diving deep on that.
Group members said they think it is better to do these all at once.
“We feel our phase one is the deep dive,” group member and realtor Rob Gillis said.
Gillis said they believe now is the “prime time” to make things happen, pointing out that the state is spending millions of dollars on creating the Adirondack Rail Trail, which connects a rail line and multi-use trail in Tupper Lake. He also referenced the high numbers of hiking tourism the Adirondack High Peaks have experienced this year.
They estimate that these investments could see an estimated $7 million annual return through user fees, an increased tax base and increased tourism.
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Costs and funding
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Group members estimate the total cost of all four phases will be $2.6 million. Town board members think this is low.
Councilman John Quinn said these cost estimates “seem to be at odds” with some of the town’s, adding that “they do seem on the low side.”
Moeller said the group got these figures by anticipating trail work to be done by local companies willing to volunteer their time and supply “in kind” services. He said members of the group have pledged $100,000 in donations and in-kind services themselves.
“We are going to put some skin in the game as just a group of local business people,” Moeller said.
He also said civic groups like the Lions and Rotary clubs have done much to support projects before, such as the Sunset Stage band shell, an upcoming bathroom at the Municipal Park and numerous sports fields.
He said the group will seek grants from the state last as it doesn’t want projects to get hung up waiting for approval.
Moeller also said the town could have user fees at the facilities offset the cost.
The bulk of the estimated $7 million annual return relies on the reopening of the Big Tupper Ski Area, Moeller said, and revenue generated through lift tickets there. The path for the rest of the plan sort of hinges on the acquisition of the mountain.
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The mountain
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Franklin County is likely to foreclose on the ski area property this spring. It is owned by developers Michael Foxman and Tom Lawson, through Big Tupper LLC. They also own the surrounding land, which was supposed to be part of the planned Adirondack Club and Resort project.
According to Franklin County, Foxman and Lawson owe several hundred thousand dollars in unpaid taxes, going back years. On the ski area property, Big Tupper LLC owes $121,000, not including its 2020 taxes.
If the taxes are not paid in full, then the county will ask a judge for approval to take the property title. It would then hold a foreclosure auction on the property.
There is a time window when the town would have priority choice to purchase the property at the cost of back taxes — which the group estimates is around $130,000 to $150,000.
Moeller said it is a “big if” if the property goes to auction.
If purchased, they said the town would not operate the ski area; rather it would lease it to a private company or state agency.
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Thanks and the future
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Littlefield thanked the group members for their hard work, and Moeller thanked the town board for having created a base of studies to build their proposal on.
They essentially turned many independent reports into one big report.
“Many of our proposals are not new,” Moeller said. “Everything has been kicked around here before. We just feel now is the time to grab a hold of these things and do them.”
“I have to again congratulate the group on the work it did,” McManus told them. “The spirit, the ambition that this plan represents — I think you are on the right track.
“I’m also thinking about the town board, probably what’s in their minds in terms of the sheer weight of trying to advance these initiatives.”
Littlefield said the town will need a funding strategy and generic strategy before it can commit any money to these ideas. She is unsure if that would be ready before the board’s December meeting.
ADKskier
Just came across this article myself today, outside of SJ. Would be awesome if they got this mountain back online. As well as the other plans for recreation activities throughout the town. Downtown Tupper lake has been fixed up quite a bit the last few years and is a neat little stroll now. I feel like they could attract Canadian skiers and partner with the 10th mountain division to bring troops over for skiing and snowmobiling. Having Retired out of the Military Myself. I would have loved the opportunity to shoot over to ski at Big Tupper.
I skied at Big Tupper the last year it was open with my family. It was a fun mountain especially riding the cathedral double to the top and getting plastered with snowmaking. We ended up at Big Tupper by chance that day as we originally were heading to whiteface. We had found out that all lifts were on wind hold and only the bunny area was being serviced. Big Tupper was wide open so we shot over. I will never forget that day. I fell in love with the mountain and it's only a 25 min drive from our camp. I feel like today's conglomerate ski resorts with their 100 lift ticket prices are pushing more skiers to find better options for their wallet, and I think Big Tupper could thrive.
McCauley Mountain in Old Forge is a similar ski area that is run by the Town of Webb. That place does great business. Obviously, The Snowmobiling industry brings in a lot of folks, but why can't the same be said for Tupper Lake? Hopefully, they get it done. The state just ripped the rails out so Tupper lake is connected to a significant amount of snowmobile traffic. I think the town will be bustling unlike years past, and that brings in families.
joshua_segal
ciscokid;c-44617 wrotenewpylong;c-44615 wroteWow look at the snow in that TBar picture, that must have been fun to shovel!
Big Tupper always looks like a great little mountain to me I followed fairly closely when they reopened chair 2 and 3 five years ago.
1971
Yea Tupper, Bobcat, Warrensburg NY
All missed
Cisco:
You confused me comparing Big Tupper with Bobcat and Warrensburg:
- Big Tupper was in Tupper Lake (Northern Adirondacks - far upstate NY)
- Bobcat (aka, Catskill Ski Center) was in Andes, NY (Catskills)
- Warrensburg is a location near Lake George, south of the Adirondacks. Are you referring to Hickory Hill?
Wondering what you were trying to say or was it a general lament on the lost ski areas of NY?
z1000307470
ADKskier;c-44618 wroteWishful thinking perhaps but the local yokels are looking for anything to bring in foot traffic. I know that last year before covid hit, there was a petition floating around for the state to buy out the foreclosed property and have ORDA run it, havent heard anything more on this.
That petition was more fantasy stuff. In order to buy and operate Big Tupper, NYS would have to create an amendment to the NYS constitution and have statewide vote to get this done. That alone would cost a boat load of money. NYS has big budget problems due to COVID. Throwing out money on a BT legislative effort is not going to happen.
Why should NYS choose Big Tupper over some other recently closed ski areas that might have a better chance of at least breaking even? How about a closed feeder area 30 minutes from millions of people? Tuxedo Ridge near NYC.
How about a 1200vert ft ski area 50 minutes from Albany and 20 minutes from Gore? Hickory in Warrensburg.
The other side of the coin is what happens to a place like Titus in Malone - should the state support Titus' efforts, too, since they somehow manage to open every year? How many skiers would Titus lose to BT?
Ultimately - Big Tupper is small and not compelling skiing, is not in a snowbelt and is in the middle of nowhere. BT has been essentially closed for over 20 years and unless one of us wins the lottery, it should remain closed and not propped up by NYS.
ADKskier
z1000307470;c-44629 wroteADKskier;c-44618 wroteWishful thinking perhaps but the local yokels are looking for anything to bring in foot traffic. I know that last year before covid hit, there was a petition floating around for the state to buy out the foreclosed property and have ORDA run it, havent heard anything more on this.
That petition was more fantasy stuff. In order to buy and operate Big Tupper, NYS would have to create an amendment to the NYS constitution and have statewide vote to get this done. That alone would cost a boat load of money. NYS has big budget problems due to COVID. Throwing out money on a BT legislative effort is not going to happen.
Why should NYS choose Big Tupper over some other recently closed ski areas that might have a better chance of at least breaking even? How about a closed feeder area 30 minutes from millions of people? Tuxedo Ridge near NYC.
How about a 1200vert ft ski area 50 minutes from Albany and 20 minutes from Gore? Hickory in Warrensburg.
The other side of the coin is what happens to a place like Titus in Malone - should the state support Titus' efforts, too, since they somehow manage to open every year? How many skiers would Titus lose to BT?
Ultimately - Big Tupper is small and not compelling skiing, is not in a snowbelt and is in the middle of nowhere. BT has been essentially closed for over 20 years and unless one of us wins the lottery, it should remain closed and not propped up by NYS.
Great points z1000307470,
Speaking of Titus too, that's a fun little mountain, seems to do well. The Problem with Tupper Lake is Location. Coming from the south it's a 3-hour drive from CNY so we tend to support the local areas Lab, Toggenburg, Song, etc... People coming up the Northway are more inclined to go to Gore, Whiteface, or Vermont. Canadians support Titus quite well as it's only an hour from the St Lawrence flats in Ontario. and I know that a lot of Military folks from Ft Drum go to Dry Hill or Titus. So it's true! Big Tupper wouldn't be a sound investment. Again wishful thinking. It's a fun mountain, skis large and Tupper lake has had a resurgence as of late. Let's be honest though, It's in no man's land for big snow events as well. I know a couple of bad winters in 98 and 99 really put the nail in the coffin. Let's not forget that ORDA got a bunch of money under the Pataki regime that really started drawing crowds to Whiteface and Gore making them the premier Adirondack skiing destinations. Pros and Cons can be made for any situation. Guess we will have to wait and see what the town decides to do.
