joshua_segal
Keep in mind that it is this year vs. the last 10, so there are 11 places.
Some good comments and DrJeff pretty much nailed my experience. It's nice change-of-pace that the more southerly areas are having a better season than are the perennials up north.
slatham
I concur with Dr Jeff except I would rank the mid-Nov to mid-Dec (pre-dump) time period as below average or even well below average. At Bromley for instance it was the worst Thanksgiving since we started coming for the holiday in 2013. And the following weekend Bromley was closed. I think the situation at Mt Snow is viewed differently because the vast improvements in snowmaking create an apples-to-organges comparison to prior, pre-West Lake years.
Overall YTD I'd put this year in the middle of the pack but rising quickly as I sit here watching it snow yet again......
riverc0il
Mansfield stake was at 1/3 of average just prior to this past week of strong snow for the green mountain spine. Really poor end of December into early January. Looks like much of VT is going off right now with nice and consistent mini blasts.
I have skied three times this season so far. I could care less. I got a rocking powder day via earned turns in early December. Snow making temps have been very consistent after the Christmas melt down. Probably just a bit below average, if it were a normal season. Which it is not.
Unless conditions bump up considerably, I don't know how this season does not rate dead last (due to COVID-19). Maybe it is not that bad for those who live in the state of their home mountain or who lie about their quarantine status (if skiing out of state).
But I cannot be objective. Not being able to ski Jay, MRG, Smuggs, Magic, etc. F'd my season. I just requested my Jay Peak season pass refund and I am hitting the turbo trainer hard. I can't wait for April to get my bike on the road and climb some mountain passes.
I don't think factoring in resort business during holiday seasons makes much sense. Most areas and resorts are going to be maxed out and turning people away during normal weekends, let alone holiday periods. We have to assume most areas are hitting 100% of their potential numbers during holiday periods based on capacity limits.
joshua_segal
riverc0il;c-46396 wroteMansfield stake was at 1/3 of average just prior to this past week of strong snow for the green mountain spine. Really poor end of December into early January. Looks like much of VT is going off right now with nice and consistent mini blasts.
I have skied three times this season so far. I could care less. I got a rocking powder day via earned turns in early December. Snow making temps have been very consistent after the Christmas melt down. Probably just a bit below average, if it were a normal season. Which it is not.
Unless conditions bump up considerably, I don't know how this season does not rate dead last (due to COVID-19). Maybe it is not that bad for those who live in the state of their home mountain or who lie about their quarantine status (if skiing out of state).
But I cannot be objective. Not being able to ski Jay, MRG, Smuggs, Magic, etc. F'd my season. I just requested my Jay Peak season pass refund and I am hitting the turbo trainer hard. I can't wait for April to get my bike on the road and climb some mountain passes.
I don't think factoring in resort business during holiday seasons makes much sense. Most areas and resorts are going to be maxed out and turning people away during normal weekends, let alone holiday periods. We have to assume most areas are hitting 100% of their potential numbers during holiday periods based on capacity limits.
Nice analysis riverc0il. However, I see a bias, based not on how good the skiing is, but on your ability to access it. It's sort of like skiing the few good days in a horrid season, and rating the season high because all the days that person skied were great. Neither captures the season.
One of the other big positives of this season that hasn't been mentioned; No January thaw and none in sight for the remainder of the month.
Cannonball
joshua_segal;c-46399 wrote
One of the other big positives of this season that hasn't been mentioned; No January thaw and none in sight for the remainder of the month.
We had an epic January thaw...it just happened to occur in the last week of December.
joshua_segal
Cannonball;c-46401 wrotejoshua_segal;c-46399 wrote
One of the other big positives of this season that hasn't been mentioned; No January thaw and none in sight for the remainder of the month.
We had an epic January thaw...it just happened to occur in the last week of December.
Well, IMO, the definition of January thaws means it happened in January. I think you're pointing to a December thaw! :D :D
Cannonball
joshua_segal;c-46403 wrote
Well, IMO, the definition of January thaws means it happened in January. I think you're pointing to a December thaw! :D :D
Well sure. But just like the way you define opening day as Oct 15th even though it isn't opening day for the majority of New England resorts, I assume there is some buffer in these definitions.
The point of course, is that we are all aware of the trend of mid-season thaws. And we've taken to calling them the "January thaw". But as our winters have both natural variability and long term shifts, sometimes that mid-winter thaw doesn't land neatly on the first month of the calendar.
Carry on with your flexible-ridgidity (or is it ridgid-flexibility?). I'll weigh in once we've had a season to rate.
joshua_segal
Cannonball;c-46404 wrotejoshua_segal;c-46403 wrote
Well, IMO, the definition of January thaws means it happened in January. I think you're pointing to a December thaw! :D :D
Well sure. But just like the way you define opening day as Oct 15th even though it isn't opening day for the majority of New England resorts, I assume there is some buffer in these definitions.
The point of course, is that we are all aware of the trend of mid-season thaws. And we've taken to calling them the "January thaw". But as our winters have both natural variability and long term shifts, sometimes that mid-winter thaw doesn't land neatly on the first month of the calendar.
Carry on with your flexible-ridgidity (or is it ridgid-flexibility?). I'll weigh in once we've had a season to rate.
Wow! That was a humorless response to what I considered a humorous posting. I even included two :D emojis to make it clear!
Regardless, I would rate it as unusual that we have gone 4-weeks retaining a powdery/granular surface and it looks like it will remain that way for at least a 5th week. (2010-1 featured powdery/granular surfaces from Xmas thru the last week of Feb. That year, the melt down occurred a few days before Xmas as opposed to this year when it actually occurred Xmas day.)
lotsoskiing
I would agree that January has been unusually good for skiing this season, Covid notwithstanding. Steady accumulation of snow, no thaw, comfortable temps (except for this coming weekend)
slatham
Well this winter continues to move up the rankings here at Bromley. It seems to have finally stopped snowing with a thick inch last night but sun now (I am NOT complaining about sun on a cold day). Over 30" since it started just over a week ago.
Now if we could just get one of the storms this week to come a wee bit further north.....
And my opinion on the Jan thaw happening in December? No that is not a Jan thaw, its not Jan. Rather, it was the just-as-famous Christmas rain to ruin 30" of mid-December snow. A classic January thaw would happen right now to ruin the current 30" of snow. Does not look like that will happen this week (fingers crossed, knock wood, etc)
joshua_segal
Feb. 8 marks the nominal half-way point in the season:
Second summary: 2020-1 Season
2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of.
2012-3: While there was little snow in December and January, February and March were epic. The snow that did happen in December was right before Christmas week which was timely from an economic point-of-view. Same was true of the January snow with respect to MLK weekend. Although there was minimal early snowfall, there was a lot of good snowmaking weather in December. There were two nasty January thaws, but great mid-winter skiing right into April. Ski areas closing with 100% full-width open trails.
2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. Analysis above by cannonball showed a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2.
2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain.
2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18.
2011-2: After October blockbuster storm, almost no natural snow all season. While the skiing was adequate on snowmaking trails, natural snow glade skiing and other aspects of the sport that involved natural snow, never materialized
2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.
So season-to-date, I've bumped this one up two places and if it were not for the COVID restrictions, the inconveniences of après ski and the travel restrictions, I might even have considered one or two places higher.
Inputs?
NewEnglandSkier13
I agree pretty much, maybe a spot higher. We've had good, consistent snow since early January, but it hasn't been really much more than an average season. A lack of January thaw is what brings this season slightly above average for me so far.
slatham
Not arguing placement, but the comment "lack of January snow" does NOT apply to SoVt. Friday Jan 15th to end of month saw Bromley get 3 feet. Combined with no non-frozen since Grinch storm its been off-the-hook good.
joshua_segal
slatham;c-46794 wroteNot arguing placement, but the comment "lack of January snow" does NOT apply to SoVt. Friday Jan 15th to end of month saw Bromley get 3 feet. Combined with no non-frozen since Grinch storm its been off-the-hook good.
True, but it's never the same everywhere. Stowe and No. VT didn't get it until the very end of the month.
joshua_segal
Feb. 25, 2021: Some of the smaller areas are thinking about closing. At CM, the last "Midnight Madness" of this season is this weekend. And for the areas that are nominally open from Dec. 15 to Apr. 1, the season is at about the 70% point:
IMO, except for the ice storm of Feb. 16, followed by copious snow and grooming to repair the damage, Feb. remained what I consider to be above average. Crowds seem to be good, although I haven't heard any official numbers yet. Based on this, I bumped the season up to 4th place.
Third summary: 2020-1 Season
2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of.
2012-3: While there was little snow in December and January, February and March were epic. The snow that did happen in December was right before Christmas week which was timely from an economic point-of-view. Same was true of the January snow with respect to MLK weekend. Although there was minimal early snowfall, there was a lot of good snowmaking weather in December. There were two nasty January thaws, but great mid-winter skiing right into April. Ski areas closing with 100% full-width open trails.
2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. There was a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2.
2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain. Except for the ice-storm of Feb. 16, the month included many days of superb skiing.
2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18.
2011-2: After October blockbuster storm, almost no natural snow all season. While the skiing was adequate on snowmaking trails, natural snow glade skiing and other aspects of the sport that involved natural snow, never materialized
2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.
Your inputs?
NewEnglandSkier13
With the recent weather, I'd consider bumping it down a spot unless we get more snow. While it's been a decent winter with consistent snowpack, we haven't gotten any more snow than average. I think we actually received less than average and it just didn't melt much during late January and February. We also lost our entire snowpack at Christmas. Usually at least some of the snowpack survives the January thaw.
NewEnglandSkier13
Another good metric to look at is that Black, NH's summit has only had enough snow to be open for two weekends so far this season.
riverc0il
Covid issues aside, I'd say a touch below average so far. Maybe average at best, we'll see what March-May bring. I think regional variation may be higher than most other seasons.
That isn't just an access issue speaking. Although I was disappointed to not be able to use my Jay pass or ski MRG on my Mad Cash, I have yet to use my Indy pass and have other deals for inexpensive skiing in NH for when I want to go. If we get a storm, I'll be there. But not many storms this season up north...
skijay
I thought for sure that my ski trip count would be off in comparison to the last full season of 2018-2019. It's not at all! I've been out 11 times which is normal as I accelerate my skiing in March and April. I will see how much more I get in and I'm confident I'll end my season at Jay in late April.
It's been a challenge though. I go once a month for a COVID Test, get my results, complete the state's required form, get the email confirm, print it, print my test result, scan it, email it to the property management.
I'm grateful for the ease of testing in my home state and the extremely fast test results since I started the ski season right before Christmas.
rickbolger
I was at Mt Abram again last weekend, conditions were fantastic. BUT the Cronah lift lines really, really suck. Clear across the base area. As I was walking in I overheard someone say "can you believe it, even the t-bar has a long line."
You can rate this as high as you want but the reality of these lift lines is absolutely brutal and should be given some consideration. Winter Park last weekend people were strung out for a half mile up the mountain.
