Sugarbush snowmaking

lotsoskiing

Any idea what's happening? I know things have been a bit marginal, temp-wise, for 24-hr runs, but there have been a couple of very cold nights and nothing new. Their report now (which is terrible, IMO) , temps in low teens shows nothing going on Gatehouse or upper ME, and only continued Crackerjack and Downspout/Lower Jester/LOrgangrinder- basically connector trails (boring). Will be a very limited selection for the crowds. Great all 3 off the top of LP are covered, but with no Murphys and 2 trails on GH, as well as nothing above midstation at ME it seems pretty off.

I am hoping it is just a case of the snow report being inaccurate, but I fear otherwise.

NewEnglandSkier13

Maybe Alterra is taking a Vail approach.

lotsoskiing

NewEnglandSkier13;c-52315 wroteMaybe Alterra is taking a Vail approach.

Man, I hope not...

lotsoskiing

Good comments from Win on AZ. Wish their website had more info, but this explains much. Still a very tough situation:

Just a bit of clarification on snowmaking capacity. The limitation is not the amount of gear (guns, hoses).it is actually the volume of water that can pass through the existing snowmaking pipes. At LP that is around 4,000 gallons per minute and an ME it is now close to 3,000. At LP is it possible to charge more than one line. For instance, guns could run on Sleeper and Lower Organgrinder simultaneously. But one thing to keep in mind is not to spread the Snowmakers too thin so they can not stay on top of it. Conditions can change quickly and they need to be able to respond. Sugarbush uses both towers and land guns. Towers, especially those that have HKD SV-10’s, turn out great snow on trails like Upper Ripcord, Snowball and Spring Fling. But many of our trails are too narrow or under lifts and have to use land guns. They are more labor intensive. You will notice that Snowmakers anticipate where snow will next be made and will move equipment in anticipation of that. They were doing that yesterday getting ready to blow on Sleeper. Some additional land guns might help a bit but the real need is larger arteries which is what my long-term plan was and I would imagine what Alterra will support too. That is a multi-year permitting and construction process and very expensive. The problem with trail expansion has been the need to go back and start almost from scratch after the few warm and rain events we have experienced, Downspout was almost down to gravel after the last one. Sugsrbush was not alone in needing to do this.

The plan at ME is a judgment call, and I said I would not give opinions but just try to clarify based on my experience. Here is the thinking I believe. The Christmas Holiday crowd is largely beginner/intermediate skiers who often ski once or twice a year. Having two easy trails to the base is preferable than having everyone going down Straight Shot Which can turn into a luge run after a few hours. While snow was being made on Crackerjack, the guns were also on at Riemergasse (yes, the snow report was not showing that until yesterday). I believe the park is viewed as too as a Holiday priority as it also allows another lift and keeps a lot of skiers and riders in the park instead of on other trails. The park requires a lot of snow to construct the hits. The pipe break on Elbow hurt because there were days when only snowmaking at higher elevations was possible. The snow report now shows Which Way is opening today (snowmaking on it was not shown on the snow report).

If you got out yesterday, you would have experienced a very different DS. Nice dry snowmaking with the trail much better covered. ( it was an ideal night for snowmaking). The first groom on Ripcord was great and should be even better this morning. Dan did the initial groom on the first shift and Warren finished on the second. Dan texted me in the am to say GPS showed depth of 6-10’ across Ripcord as he groomed the whales out. They started with depth in the middle teens up top.

Now we will have to wait and see what this next weather events brings. I don’t think we will lose snow, but we could see some freezing rain Go make things slick. Hopefully it will end with some inches of snow.

ps: last Christmas it was 65 in Burlington so things are better this year.

newpylong

I replied to a comment in that thread with additional information from my time there and my contacts at SB:

Unless things have changed recently they have a ways to go. Lincoln is roughly 3500 GPM / 16000 CFM and the Ellen side (2800 GPM / 12000 CFM) is a little weird with the split system (smaller pumps only on Inverness and the rest for the balance of the mountain.) In general, both of those systems are very undersized per skiable acre.

I haven't been a Sugarbush regular since I was in the valley from 95 to 99 but I can tell you that ASC blew the snot out of both sides. They also covered Exterminator in lean years (we actually used to train GS on it sometimes). They had supplemental diesel to get around the curtailment that shut those Centacs down now. They used the SR7s and Rats to handle the marginal (when the Snow Logics can't run now.) It seems like they're now dealing with all of that cheap steel that ASC put in from the sounds of it. Obviously not an apples to apples comparison as energy costs have skyrocketed since that era, but just to provide some historical info.

I think Win's plan (and Alterra's if they do it) to upgrade the uplines on the water distribution side will probably have the most positive effect. Your uplines need to be of a sufficient diameter to handle the volume (and reduce friction loss) to be able to split and feed your smaller feeds on multiple trails. Then you need to be able to supply those feeds with adequate water. May be an issue bringing more up from the Mad River pond and the Brook weir at Ellen?

lotsoskiing

newpylong;c-52401 wroteI replied to a comment in that thread with additional information from my time there and my contacts at SB:

Unless things have changed recently they have a ways to go. Lincoln is roughly 3500 GPM / 16000 CFM and the Ellen side (2800 GPM / 12000 CFM) is a little weird with the split system (smaller pumps only on Inverness and the rest for the balance of the mountain.) In general, both of those systems are very undersized per skiable acre.

I haven't been a Sugarbush regular since I was in the valley from 95 to 99 but I can tell you that ASC blew the snot out of both sides. They also covered Exterminator in lean years (we actually used to train GS on it sometimes). They had supplemental diesel to get around the curtailment that shut those Centacs down now. They used the SR7s and Rats to handle the marginal (when the Snow Logics can't run now.) It seems like they're now dealing with all of that cheap steel that ASC put in from the sounds of it. Obviously not an apples to apples comparison as energy costs have skyrocketed since that era, but just to provide some historical info.

I think Win's plan (and Alterra's if they do it) to upgrade the uplines on the water distribution side will probably have the most positive effect. Your uplines need to be of a sufficient diameter to handle the volume (and reduce friction loss) to be able to split and feed your smaller feeds on multiple trails. Then you need to be able to supply those feeds with adequate water. May be an issue bringing more up from the Mad River pond and the Brook weir at Ellen?

I think the issue is also staffing. Heard a rumor they had 40 snowmakers, now have fewer than 30. That, coupled with the electricity pricing structure have led to less snowmaking. Lift issues with North Ridge also persist...another rumor, so take it for what it's worth, but that lift has a checkered history since it was moved from GMX during the ill-fated 'GM Slug' era...

Still raining now...argh

lotsoskiing

Gotta give them props for putting lipstick on it in today's report... building up the opening of 4 connectors that are natural snow-only:

We could be looking at more terrain coverage by the end of the week, in fact, today we are dropping ropes on In Road, Out Road, Out to Lunch, and Heaven's Gate Traverse.

At least it shows they are paying attention and giving as much info as possible. I hope the guns can stay on and get moved to more trails soon.

lotsoskiing

Win is doing a great job with transparency on AZ. Wish they could push that out to the SB website.

lotsoskiing

Looks like things moving ahead at Mt Ellen- Elbow, Rim Run, and Expressway lit up do NR should be running soon. FIngers crossed.

Still don't know why Murphy's, Lower Snowball, and Birdland not getting love at LP