Why is skiing so expensive in the US?

ADKskier

There's no doubt that the multi-mountain passes offer an incredible value for a certain demographic of people that is certainly well represented here at SnowJournal and probably even more so on other skiing forums. But I feel like as a group of passionate skiers, we can be in a bubble sometimes and not be understanding of the many skiers who just want to ski a handful of days a year. Most skiers I know just ski a few weekend trips a year. And from the Storm Skiing Podcast interviews, I definitely think various mountain leaders are in a bubble, thinking that every person in the country can be converted to a passholder if only they understand how 'good of a deal it is.'

There have been various Doug Fish quotes that the average passholder skis 10 days while the average non-passholder (comprising 75% of skiers in the U.S.) skis four days. Now of course Doug Fish may have an agenda with the numbers. But if they are true and it wouldn't surprise me at all, we can almost certainly assume that the median passholder skis even fewer than ten days because we know some skiers will use their pass 50 days and really skew the average.

Let's say the median passholder skis eight days and the average non-passholder skis four days. There's no way you can say that skiing has not become quite a bit more expensive, unless you ski a lot, you're lucky enough to live near a hill with reasonable prices, or you get an Indy Pass, which thank goodness is helping.

Great point, I used to get out a lot. It was very affordable to buy a pass. Now i look more for the enjoyment of my son.

Brklynskier

There's no doubt that the multi-mountain passes offer an incredible value for a certain demographic of people that is certainly well represented here at SnowJournal and probably even more so on other skiing forums. But I feel like as a group of passionate skiers, we can be in a bubble sometimes and not be understanding of the many skiers who just want to ski a handful of days a year. Most skiers I know just ski a few weekend trips a year. And from the Storm Skiing Podcast interviews, I definitely think various mountain leaders are in a bubble, thinking that every person in the country can be converted to a passholder if only they understand how 'good of a deal it is.'

There have been various Doug Fish quotes that the average passholder skis 10 days while the average non-passholder (comprising 75% of skiers in the U.S.) skis four days. Now of course Doug Fish may have an agenda with the numbers. But if they are true and it wouldn't surprise me at all, we can almost certainly assume that the median passholder skis even fewer than ten days because we know some skiers will use their pass 50 days and really skew the average.

Let's say the median passholder skis eight days and the average non-passholder skis four days. There's no way you can say that skiing has not become quite a bit more expensive, unless you ski a lot, you're lucky enough to live near a hill with reasonable prices, or you get an Indy Pass, which thank goodness is helping.

I agree as well. Even MRG, with the demise of MAD and Shareholder MAD Cards seems to have drank the Kool-Aid as well. It's now all about the passholders.

joshua_segal

Average greens fees for 18 holes are about $60. For the skier who only goes out a half-dozen times, lift-tickets are not much worse than the cost of a round of golf!

NewEnglandSkier13

Average greens fees for 18 holes are about $60. For the skier who only goes out a half-dozen times, lift-tickets are not much worse than the cost of a round of golf!

$60 seems to be on the cheaper side for weekend lift tickets these days. On the other hand, $60 is on the more expensive side for golf. Most green fees, at least around here, are $30-$40 for 18 holes.

ADKskier

I reject the basic premise. If one skis as little as 20 days a season, buying one of the multi-area season passes, the price is quite reasonable.
glad you can ski 20 days a season
I do about 120, -- but the Indy still works even if you only do 10 days.

120 wow! thats awesome! You should blog Id love to see some TR's

JimK

liability insurance and snowmaking expense is my guess are the main drivers for most placed, but that's just a guess

I concur with lotso.

Photo (not mine) from today at a Vail-owned resort in southern PA. Besides the long line in foreground there is a giant corral out of sight behind the stop sign packed with many more people:

Apparently today was one of the first Saturdays for ski operations this season. I hope most of these folks were season pass holders, rather than single visitors paying big bucks for one day. I'm told part of the reason for the giant line were folks trying to activate their season passes.

NewEnglandSkier13

I reject the basic premise. If one skis as little as 20 days a season, buying one of the multi-area season passes, the price is quite reasonable.
glad you can ski 20 days a season
I do about 120, -- but the Indy still works even if you only do 10 days.
120 wow! thats awesome! You should blog Id love to see some TR's

While not known for his photos, he usually posts regular updates on the Crotched, Killington, and other threads.

yardsale

Many lifts in Europe are treated as transportation infrastructure and thus are not paid for by the resort. That kind of helps out. Imagine if the State of Vermont put 2 new lifts on Mt. Snow as part of a transportation infrastructure expenditure?

ski_it

Yes we are all idiots. Have you not been reading our most popular thread? What other proof do you need?
:D why yes all 50 pages of it. Good ole corporate skiing I suppose.

If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a billion times. Don’t exaggerate.
It’s only 15 pages.

Cannonball

I reject the basic premise. If one skis as little as 20 days a season, buying one of the multi-area season passes, the price is quite reasonable.

I'm sure a family of 4 who might want to try skiing for a weekend will be impressed and envious of how cheap it is for you!

Just dont count on them to come back and help grow the sport.

lotsoskiing

I reject the basic premise. If one skis as little as 20 days a season, buying one of the multi-area season passes, the price is quite reasonable.
I'm sure a family of 4 who might want to try skiing for a weekend will be impressed and envious of how cheap it is for you!

Just dont count on them to come back and help grow the sport.

Bingo. That's my concern. Still pretty rough entry. Yes, buy gear as ski swaps, rent boots for the season for the kids, all that, but in the end, the tix are going to push this to more and more of a 1% sport

conrad

Unless you have a pass, you're likely going to pay north of $100 a day a person to visit a "destination resort" even if you buy in advance and that is expensive for most people. And I know people who do that, albeit not very often for obvious reasons. And some ski areas like Steamboat are in the $200's and you only save $20 by buying in advance. And it's going to be me this March when I go to Utah for 3 days with a cousin who has an Ikon pass. It's going to be pretty rough on the wallet.

If that's what it cost to play golf then I just wouldn't play, but fortunately the golf courses near me range from $21 to $53, though I'm sure if you're seeking out a golf course north of $100 you can find it.

JimK

There are a couple of smaller ski areas in my region that are more affordable and less crowded (Bryce and Canaan Valley). I try to recommend them every chance I get especially for newbies and young families, but the masses seem to strongly prefer all the much busier and slightly bigger ski areas. >:)

conrad

There are a couple of smaller ski areas in my region that are more affordable and less crowded (Bryce and Canaan Valley). I try to recommend them every chance I get especially for newbies and young families, but the masses seem to strongly prefer all the much busier and slightly bigger ski areas. >:)

That leads to what is probably one of the most important reasons skiing is so expensive: because there is no shortage of people visiting these expensive resorts, and in many cases there are too many people visiting.

This itself could be blamed on the difficulty of building a new ski area in the 21st century leading to over-capacity at existing ski areas.

tedede

Have you checked out boat prices lately? And private jets are just through the roof.

rickbolger

heres my point

https://www.skiresorts.net/most-expensive-lift-passes-europe/

OK I see what you're saying. I would say that it probably has more to do with intrinsic differences between skiing in Europe and skiing here, and where the ski areas are built, and how the lifts are funded, as discussed above. I imagine it costs less to do certain other leisure things here than it does there.

And ultimately, whether here or there: everybody's broke at some level. Why aren't the slopes and villages overrun if it's so accessible and affordable?

I'm reminded of the celebrities who threaten to flee to Europe every time the political climate shifts away from their particular taste. Nobody stands in their way, but none of them seem to ever leave.

ciscokid

Average greens fees for 18 holes are about $60. For the skier who only goes out a half-dozen times, lift-tickets are not much worse than the cost of a round of golf!
$60 seems to be on the cheaper side for weekend lift tickets these days. On the other hand, $60 is on the more expensive side for golf. Most green fees, at least around here, are $30-$40 for 18 holes.

Another thing, NY 850 golf courses, 50 ski areas
Mich 600 golf, 40 ski

There is just so much larger number of courses
Tee times, well I guess there are ski times

Golf in north about 9 months
Ski about 6 mos.

Sam’s numbers are closer to Mich numbers

I can drive 5 minutes, play a quick 9 in 2 hours for $20ish or have to drive an hour and half each way for a decent hill.

My wife about hit the fan after grocery shopping the other day just for the 2 of us.

A 7 ounce coffee cake for $5 and it was a 14 ounce last week for same price.

DrJeff

Average greens fees for 18 holes are about $60. For the skier who only goes out a half-dozen times, lift-tickets are not much worse than the cost of a round of golf!
$60 seems to be on the cheaper side for weekend lift tickets these days. On the other hand, $60 is on the more expensive side for golf. Most green fees, at least around here, are $30-$40 for 18 holes.
Another thing, NY 850 golf courses, 50 ski areas
Mich 600 golf, 40 ski

There is just so much larger number of courses
Tee times, well I guess there are ski times

Golf in north about 9 months
Ski about 6 mos.

Sam’s numbers are closer to Mich numbers

I can drive 5 minutes, play a quick 9 in 2 hours for $20ish or have to drive an hour and half each way for a decent hill.

My wife about hit the fan after grocery shopping the other day just for the 2 of us.

A 7 ounce coffee cake for $5 and it was a 14 ounce last week for same price.

The skiing/golf comparison, while they're both outdoor leisure activities that involve the use of disposable income, isn't really an apples to apples compariosn just based on the simple stats.

There were (pre-COVID and COVID caused a BOOM in the golf industry) just under 450 MILLION rounds played annually in the US vs 55-60 million skier days.

Gold courses are limited per day by the simple fact that most can only send at maximum capacity via full foursomes about 4 people per every 8 to 12 minutes off the tee, which is maybe 20 to 30 people an hour out on the course, even in the extended daylight hours of Summer that is less than 400 people per day on the course, which is the equiavlent of what a fully loaded quad chair withj 6 second spacing can do in 10 minutes.

So the shear larger number of golf courses allows for the pricing dispartity between some course charging $20 or less per round whereas others will charge over $500 a round, letr alone some private clubs where the initiation fees at an elite club is over 6 figures.

I LOVE both sports, as between the 2 of them I can be doing either of them 52 weeks a year.

Kind of tough to compare them, other than their both fun, they bost cost $$, and there are plenty of pricing options across both of them to choose from

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