Stowe/Smuggs interconnect

lotsoskiing

Taking bets on whether this happens: https://liftblog.com/2023/06/01/smugglers-notch-and-stowe-propose-interconnect-gondola/

NewEnglandSkier13

Why would Smugglers Notch want this unless they plan to join up with one of the mega passes?

DrJeff

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60772 wroteWhy would Smugglers Notch want this unless they plan to join up with one of the mega passes?

To drive some extra volume both during the Winter months as well as the Summer into leaf peeping season early Fall. Would be a spectactular ride in foliage season I am guesing. Plus on the Smuggs side, with their top notch kids center (something that Stowe doesn't have an equivalent too currently) I could see this as a way for some guests and 2nd home owners in particular staying on the Stowe side starting to utilize the Smuggs kids facilitues as well.

The 1 things I have learned when it comes to proposed developments like this lift would be, is you can't just think about the lift utilization in solely a wintersports skiing/riding way, since that isn't all this lift would be, and frankly might even be the minority thing the lift would be in the vision of those proposing it

LiftGuy

Que the wailing and gnashing of teeth! ;)

ceo

I will bet money this is a preparatory step for Vail Resorts to acquire Smuggs and interconnect the resorts, because it only makes sense to do the former if they can get approval to do the latter. Otherwise an interconnect lift (a gondola, no less) makes zero sense for Smuggs. So, if you like your ancient, slow Hall doubles, better get up there next season.
I confess I won't shed too many tears; I like the throwback character of the place, but I also like to get a reasonable amount of skiing in and not stand in lines and sit on lifts all day. And in truth, much as I detest Vail Resorts, an interconnected Stowe/Smuggs would be an amazing thing.

ceo

Although, looking at the article, apparently they've been talking about this ever since Vail acquired Stowe, which is interesting.

Schweig_1

Smuggs doesn’t charge for parking. If people from Burlington had the choice, they could avoid the Stowe access road, and park at Smuggs.

NewEnglandSkier13

ceo;c-60776 wroteI will bet money this is a preparatory step for Vail Resorts to acquire Smuggs and interconnect the resorts, because it only makes sense to do the former if they can get approval to do the latter. Otherwise an interconnect lift (a gondola, no less) makes zero sense for Smuggs. So, if you like your ancient, slow Hall doubles, better get up there next season.
I confess I won't shed too many tears; I like the throwback character of the place, but I also like to get a reasonable amount of skiing in and not sit on lifts all day. And in truth, much as I detest Vail Resorts, an interconnected Stowe/Smuggs would be an amazing thing.

Slow? Smugglers Notch operates some of the fastest fixed-grips around!

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60784 wrote
ceo;c-60776 wroteI will bet money this is a preparatory step for Vail Resorts to acquire Smuggs and interconnect the resorts, because it only makes sense to do the former if they can get approval to do the latter. Otherwise an interconnect lift (a gondola, no less) makes zero sense for Smuggs. So, if you like your ancient, slow Hall doubles, better get up there next season.
I confess I won't shed too many tears; I like the throwback character of the place, but I also like to get a reasonable amount of skiing in and not sit on lifts all day. And in truth, much as I detest Vail Resorts, an interconnected Stowe/Smuggs would be an amazing thing.
Slow? Smugglers Notch operates some of the fastest fixed-grips around!

I guess a turtle IS faster than a snail :) :) :D

ADKskier

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60772 wroteWhy would Smugglers Notch want this unless they plan to join up with one of the mega passes?

Look at Alta and Snowbird...its worked for them....why not here. Spread the masses out.

TomWhite

Alta - Snowbird and Squaw - Alpine Meadows (prename change) are similar character different. I've not skied the later pair.
In 2005 Smuggs got an Act 250 approval for a six pack replacement of the Sterling double. I remembered that but didn't think it was that long ago. NESI gives that date. I thought it was odd at the time. Could Bill Stritlzer have been thinking interconnect back then?

lotsoskiing

To me the issue, besides the seemingly diametrically opposed vibe and target customer base of the two areas, is the fact that Sterling can't handle more capacity, especially if it ever gets the HS6 that is permitted.

Just seems like round peg in square hole, but would be interesting

TomWhite

I read the Morrisville News & Citizen article. There was much discussion of the environmental impact on the summits. If there is a desire for an "interconnect" there are two other options that occur to me. First, the notch road could be opened year-round for auto traffic. Second, vans with snow tracks (or similar), could be used to go through the notch. I assume both have been discussed over the years at least locally. I've simply not seen such.

lotsoskiing

TomWhite;c-60789 wroteI read the Morrisville News & Citizen article. There was much discussion of the environmental impact on the summits. If there is a desire for an "interconnect" there are two other options that occur to me. First, the notch road could be opened year-round for auto traffic. Second, vans with snow tracks (or similar), could be used to go through the notch. I assume both have been discussed over the years at least locally. I've simply not seen such.

No way that road can be opened in winter. Yes, Snowcats could get through

JMaul

Pipe Dream. The environmental hurdle can't be met in my opinion.

I think they're bringing this out to gauge public opinion. Maybe Smuggs' becomes an epic partner.
Or, Vail is in talks to acquire BUT only an interconnect is possible.

lotsoskiing

More coverage: https://vtdigger.org/2023/06/02/connector-lift-eyed-for-stowe-smugglers-notch-resorts/

TomWhite

I’ve never been a fan of pulse gondolas. I rode a short one at Snowmass. They seem to be low capacity but I’m sure they are much cheaper than detachables. This might be a place for one. It is short and they aren’t planning for high capacity. My guess, even at 1200pph, there will be many empty cabins. I’ve skied both resorts. While Smuggs could use some upgrades, I don’t favor changing its character significantly. One thought is, limited gondi ticket sales or limiting lift tickets/passes with crossing ability, might work for starters.

TomWhite

Storm King podcast text:
Smugglers’ Notch Plans Gondola Interconnect with Stowe; “No Discussions” on Vail Buying Smuggs
https://www.stormskiing.com/p/smugglers-notch-plans-gondola-interconnect?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=7871&post_id=125773096&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

tedede

In 2016 a pre-Vail Stowe season pass was $2300. Perhaps they feel people will take the $1500 in savings and buy a Smuggs pass too. The demand up there definitely exceeds the supply if they can charge for parking.

newpylong

I have been wondering if Vail has given any thought to developing the Toll House area for additional parking/access? That would be one new long access lift and a long trail to have to add snowmaking to, but if it helps solves the problem?