Platter pull and t-bar limits

TomWhite

z1000307470;c-66966 wroteThe Plattekill T-bar was steep. Anybody ever ride the Pico t-bar that served Little Pico/A/B/C slopes? That line is a bear.

Riding the triple up Little Pico, I've said that is amazing that the T-bar (first in US/East) went up that face. That single chairs on it in the summer. It would have been steeper than the poma I wrote about at Hidden Valley.

rickbolger

second the one at Breck. I was stopped on it for what seemed like an eternity, which was a terrible experience. I've never seen anything as steep and as long as that.

ceo

IIRC the #5 T-bar at Sugarloaf (now the Misery Whip trail) was steeper than #3, at least right below the top. First pitch of the Cannon upper T-bars was about as steep as #5.
They keep #3 around for when the chairlifts are on wind hold, but I once saw them put #3 itself on wind hold when it was so windy you couldn't stand up at the top.

patrick_torsell

Not sure what design maxes might be. Likely depends on a lot of variables. Our Little Horse T-Bar line is steep at the top pitch, maxing out at about 33 degrees. Pictures never do it justice:

rickbolger

well I guess in my case, the tale grows with the telling...based on the above images I looked at the top 400' or so of the "new" T-bar at Cooper vs. what I remember at Breck, and my more recent experience at Cannon (Mittersill).

these are averages for the section, based on elevation change & length on the ground, and the pythagorean thing.

the numbers listed are length on the ground, not perfect but fairly close to length of cable.

top 426' of that t-bar at Coop is 24.8º
steepest 450' of the t-bar at Mittersill is 20.5º
steepest 450' of the t-bar at Breckenridge is 17º

So I was thinking, well, the Breck t-bar is a lot longer so maybe that's it.

1200' of steep lower section at Breck is 15º.
1200' of most of Cooper Little Horse is 22º.
1200' from the top down on Mittersill Valar T-Bar is 21.9º.

Just for giggles I looked at the t-bar at Mt. Abram, also mentioned above. the steepest 1,000' length section is no slouch, 21.2º

Considering a margin of error, Cooper, Mittersill & Mt. A are all about the same level of leg pain.

riverc0il

Mittersill T-bar isn't that steep, except at the very top. It is an extremely steep crest over the final pitch to the unload area... definitely +30*, at least, probably more.

Kayaker

Kayaker;c-66962 wroteThe steepest T-bar I ever rode was at the now lost Frontenac Ski camp at Plymouth NH. NewEnglandskihistory.com has it at a rise of 250 ft and an installed length of 850 ft. That gives a percent grade of 30%. That was steep for a little kid.

So Frontenac is the steepest so far? 30% is an average for the entire length of the lift, not just the steepest part. A little bit of geometry can back some of the claims we've seen to date.

Kayaker

oops I estimated % grade not degrees. I'll convert that later.

Kayaker

That's 16.7 degrees for Frontenac.

skelley19

Waterville had the High Country T Bar on wind hold twice yesterday:

NewEnglandSkier13

Apparently the T-bar at Sunday River is on wind hold today. I imagine that the plastic Ts on strings are much more susceptible to wind holds than the traditional metal telescoping pole T-bars.

ski_it

Lake Louise Summit platter- Skiresorts.info says 351m/1119m so 18°. Liftblog says 1346ft/3673ft or 21.5°.
Nice pic here of headwall:https://liftblog.com/summit-lake-louise-ab/
Couple articles I found said the headwall was 40°. IDK if that is true or not.
Lake Louise Summit platter (it wasn't a T) - Long live the t-bar, why-saving-ski-area-surface-lifts-matters

rickbolger

Ok using your links and dusting off some old trail maps I'm guessing this was the location of the Lake Louis death platter?

If yes, I employed the same methodology and put Pythagoras to work on it and I come up with 21.4º overall, steepest 1200' of the upper section was 21.8º while the steepest 1200' of the lower section tilted upward through the trees at 25.6º and from what I read, most people don't miss it.

abubob

Seems to me most people don’t miss t-bars and platter pulls as they require a certain amount of skill that most do not possess.

powderstud

abubob;c-67029 wroteSeems to me most people don’t miss t-bars and platter pulls as they require a certain amount of skill that most do not possess.

It's more than that. When you ride one of those lifts, you are continuing to put a strain on your legs. If you've been skiing hard (i.e. bumps, etc.) the chairlift ride on the way up is far preferable as you get a respite which makes it possible to ski longer/harder. Surface lifts don't give you that "recovery period."

I for one do not pine for the days of the dual T-bars at Cannon, or the Kennebago T-bar, etc. The chairlift replacements are a definite improvement. :smile:

NewEnglandSkier13

I may in the minority, but I will always prefer T-bars over chairlifts. They are faster, very easy to ride (all you do it stand there), more protected from weather, more flexible (you can get off at multiple points on some lifts), and far easier to evacuate.

ski_it

rickbolger;c-67022 wroteOk using your links and dusting off some old trail maps I'm guessing this was the location of the Lake Louis death platter?
.....and from what I read, most people don't miss it.

Thanks Rick. I'll accept your numbers. That line looks correct except of course it goes all the way to the top which is up past the end of the red line & fencing. .....probs but I'm sure far fewer novices ended up in that back bowel so it must have been a little quieter back then. The top was the scary part in my recollection. Pros & cons on the replacement discussed here parkscanadahistory.com/publications/banff/lake-louise-lrp-sum-2019.pdf

Agreed powerstud on the recovery. That's why I always double my vert when I ride surface lifts. ;)

I stumbled across this while I was looking for the old line, which some of you might find interesting.
Candian Ski Patrol Lake Louise Patrol Operations Manual Under the 4 areas of terrain it lists:
Summit: The summit platter serves some of the most demanding terrain at Lake Louise, with legendary runs such as the Whitehorns (WH1, 2, 3), Headwall, Brownshirt, and Outer Limits all covered by patrollers in this area.

z1000307470

Another steep t-bar was at the North Creek Ski Bowl. The Ski Bowl is now attached to Gore.

IBRAKEFORTBARS

There’s a whole mess load of t-bars and pomas long since removed that, should someone crank out that time machine I’m waiting on 😂, I’ll finally be able to ride!

When said time machine arrives we will need to do a Snowjournal trip to Cannon to ride those fabled summit t-bars! And then Saddleback for the Kennebago t-bar. And then Okemo for all those groovy Pomalifts. Etc. Etc. Etc.

IBRAKE

lotsoskiing

Get to Northeast Slopes!

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