joshua_segal
With Saddleback scheduled to re-open for the 2020-1 season, I got to thinking about the "Colonel Bates" trail. The trail goes mostly west, but the fall-line goes mostly north. It is the most extreme double fall-line trail I've skied.
Are there other "extreme double fall-line trails" that come to your mind?
NewEnglandSkier13
Pats Pass at Mt. Abram has quite an extreme double fall line.
newpylong
Upper Ex at Mount Snow.
TomWhite
I grew-up skiing at Hidden Valley, east of Pittsburgh. Stingray is the trail under their twin triples. It has a wicked double fall line. You ski directly under the chairs, the extra fall line goes skier's left to right.
Remski
Ragged’s Sweepstakes trail, Stowe’s Goat trail.
TomWhite
Stowe’s Goat trail.
Despite being quit straight, Goat was never a lift line. It was certain built before the concept of "fall line skiing".
joshua_segal
Upper Ex at Mount Snow.
I don't recognize the trail name "Upper Ex" and can't think of any run at Mt. Snow with a serious double fall-line. I remember Jaws of 50-years ago having a double-fall line, but in recent years, not really. Maybe they bulldozed it and maybe they've just built up enough snow to level it.
joshua_segal
..., Stowe’s Goat trail.
My recollection is a few years old, but I think it was just double fall-line for about the first 50 to 100'. Is there more?
newpylong
Upper Ex at Mount Snow.
I don't recognize the trail name "Upper Ex" and can't think of any run at Mt. Snow with a serious double fall-line. I remember Jaws of 50-years ago having a double-fall line, but in recent years, not really. Maybe they bulldozed it and maybe they've just built up enough snow to level it.
Upper Exhibition, and the fall line is double to the point that they stopped making snow on it.
Cannonball
Cannon: Hardscrabble. Kinsman. Sections of several other trails.
Loon: Big Dipper-Triple Trouble.
Magic has several but I'm bad with the trail namesv there
lotsoskiing
Exterminator, to some degree, at Sugarbush/Mt. Ellen
The left fork of Lower FIS at same.
Ross at Middlebury. Not extreme but still steep
jaytrem
Jaws still has the double fall line at the bottom, but it's not thr steep part. I think there was another steeper one towards the top before Plummet ruined PDF and the top of Jaws.
powderstud
National at Stowe used to have an unbelievable double-fall line at the top of the run. When I first skied it in 1980, the top of it was roped off allowing for one skier to enter at a time. The reason? Because if you fell because it was so icy (which was the norm pre-snowmaking), you were likely going to fall down sideways. So for safety reasons, they controlled access to the run because of the double fall line.
I'm not sure when Stowe completely re-engineered the trail, but the National of today bears little resemblance to the National of 40 years ago and which like the Front Four had such a fearsome reputation in its day (but exists only in memory today). National is now DRAMATICALLY wider, the double fall line has been completely removed, and the challenge of the run has mostly been neutered. In fact, you could say that about many trails at Stowe. What's been done to the mountain in terms of removing its character, changing the trails to the point they're not even the same anymore (Nosedive and Starr quickly come to mind), and neutering the place, is an unspeakable tragedy. I can think of few mountains that have been more damaged by the changes that their owners brought to them than Stowe. It's sad.
slatham
Cannon: Hardscrabble. Kinsman. Sections of several other trails.
Loon: Big Dipper-Triple Trouble.
Magic has several but I'm bad with the trail namesv there
Magic, upper Witch, Twighlight Zone, sections of HOM, Broomstick, parts of Black Line too.....
riverc0il
My recollection is a few years old, but I think it was just double fall-line for about the first 50 to 100'. Is there more?
The entire upper section of Goat (until the cut in from Liftline, as I recall) is horribly "double fall" to the point I don't even consider it a skiable double fall line. If you can't actually ski into the double fall, it is bad trail design. The upper part of Goat is so sloped that the higher section of the trail doesn't hold any snow so you need to ski the lower part of the trail which the double fall valleys into, which is essentially just straight fall line.
So Goat certainly counts for what JS asked for in this topic: "extreme double falls". Many trails that are starting to be named barely contain a double fall, let alone an extreme aspect.
downdrafts_last_tree
I agree with almost all of rivercOil's post - he's got the Goat headwall description right, but I think the trail is designed to be extremely difficult, and is "badly designed" only in the sense that the double fall line makes it exactly that heading toward unfairness. Also, my understanding is that the entire Goat headwall was narrower originally, and it was widened up the "higher" side, and that maybe aids with snow blowing down onto the "lower" side.
Starr at Stowe starts with that steep headwall in the fall line, but after that - and until until it merges with the Lookout chair liftline about 2/3 of the way down - it cuts back across the mountain with a relentless and harsh double fall line (and my recollection is that when skiing it, it starts to feels like someone is punching you in the left thigh repeatedly all the way to that merge).
Up above the merge, the Upper Lookout Liftline has an extreme double fall line for at least 1/2 of that length. Back when I skied Stowe at all, there was a question in my mind about whether it was a trail or not, but it is on the map now. There's a YouTube video that shows this feature.
Many trails have a section or two with an odd ball "side hill" lie, but usually not most of the trail. I'd put Starr up there as a steep and long run where at least 1/2+ of it is a tough/nasty double fall line. Some others that come to mind like this might be Kitzbuhel (after the first steep and long pitch) and Power Line at Jay. If you're looking more for the most radical double fall line for a large portion (but less than 1/2) of the run, I think Upper Lookout Liftline at Stowe is hard to beat.
joshua_segal
Summary:
Definitely double-fall line
- Colonel Bates, Saddleback, ME
- Goat, Stowe, VT
Many of the others mentioned probably qualify, but I'm looking for confirmation by a few other posters before I add some of the other nominees to the next summary.
NewEnglandSkier13
The lift line under the Worth Triple at Middlebury has one of the most extreme double fall lines anywhere.
teighs
Smugglers Notch: Many of the trails have a double fall line but the more extreme are: Black Bear and Madonna Lift Line below mid-station
Treilly
Upper Liftline at Jiminy Peak
