Reopening

NewEnglandSkier13

Mount Baldy in California will be reopening: https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/22/california-ski-resort-mt-baldy-reopens-for-skiing/

JimK

I am glad they are trying this. We have to restart somewhere/sometime and I'm not just talking about skiing. A smaller ski area like Mt. Baldy may be a good test site to learn how larger resorts could effectively operate in the future.

slatham

https://winter.mtbaldyresort.com/covid-19-guidlines/

This will be interesting to watch.

bmwskier

Also on Unofficial Networks, some skiers are suing Vail Resorts.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/20/lawsuit-against-vail-resorts/

slatham

bmwskier;c-41658 wroteAlso on Unofficial Networks, some skiers are suing Vail Resorts.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/20/lawsuit-against-vail-resorts/

Of course they are, this is America, the land of frivolous lawsuits!

bmwskier

Fortunately, they don't stand much of a chance. This article, posted on VT Ski and Ride, break it down pretty plainly. I didn't know Alterra was sued as well.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-lawsuits-mean-for-ski-areas/

sugarloaf

What's the concensus around here if a vast majority of ski areas can't reopen next season. I guess non starting expenses would be minimal going through next Winter, sort of like a Summer hiatus for most ski sreas. Bad for people that depend on seasonal employment.

Lots of talk about how next Fall and Winter could be worse due to Covid19 and the flu coming back in tandem and more severely.

marcski

What's truly amazing about this, is that a ski area just 45 miles from downtown LA still has enough good coverage on April 23 to reopen.

lotsoskiing

marcski;c-41677 wroteWhat's truly amazing about this, is that a ski area just 45 miles from downtown LA still has enough good coverage on April 23 to reopen.

I wish them luck. Forecast is for very high temps in SoCal

rickbolger

JimK;c-41654 wroteI am glad they are trying this. We have to restart somewhere/sometime and I'm not just talking about skiing. A smaller ski area like Mt. Baldy may be a good test site to learn how larger resorts could effectively operate in the future.

ugh. Unfortunately I think you're correct...fortunately a lot can change between now and next season.

slatham

sugarloaf;c-41675 wroteWhat's the concensus around here if a vast majority of ski areas can't reopen next season. I guess non starting expenses would be minimal going through next Winter, sort of like a Summer hiatus for most ski sreas. Bad for people that depend on seasonal employment.

I think that looking at a non 20/21 as if its a typical summer hiatus is way too optimistic. Many expenses continue - interest on debt, taxes and rent being just a few of the biggies. And can ski areas turn off the electric and heat with the flip of a switch? Doubt it. I also think the cost to reopen in 21/22 would be substantially higher due to increased re-start costs from everything sitting idle. Some more knowledgeable than I can provide more insight.

So no, a full on non-ski season next winter would be a disaster IMHO.

NewEnglandSkier13

slatham;c-41687 wrote
sugarloaf;c-41675 wroteWhat's the concensus around here if a vast majority of ski areas can't reopen next season. I guess non starting expenses would be minimal going through next Winter, sort of like a Summer hiatus for most ski sreas. Bad for people that depend on seasonal employment.
I think that looking at a non 20/21 as if its a typical summer hiatus is way too optimistic. Many expenses continue - interest on debt, taxes and rent being just a few of the biggies. And can ski areas turn off the electric and heat with the flip of a switch? Doubt it. I also think the cost to reopen in 21/22 would be substantially higher due to increased re-start costs from everything sitting idle. Some more knowledgeable than I can provide more insight.

So no, a full on non-ski season next winter would be a disaster IMHO.

We turn off our heat and most of our electric every summer. No season next year would be bad, but we would survive.

conrad

sugarloaf;c-41675 wroteMany expenses continue - interest on debt

Vail might be the one to feel this the most. I'm not knowledgeable enough whether or not it could be serious, but wouldn't be surprised if it rippled for a few years.

I'm sure there are a few smaller independents that have a debt problem, but I would guess most of the ones who have made it this far are used to leaner operations and weren't racking up debt before this all went down. But I could be wrong.

slatham

NewEnglandSkier13;c-41688 wrote
slatham;c-41687 wrote
sugarloaf;c-41675 wroteWhat's the concensus around here if a vast majority of ski areas can't reopen next season. I guess non starting expenses would be minimal going through next Winter, sort of like a Summer hiatus for most ski sreas. Bad for people that depend on seasonal employment.
I think that looking at a non 20/21 as if its a typical summer hiatus is way too optimistic. Many expenses continue - interest on debt, taxes and rent being just a few of the biggies. And can ski areas turn off the electric and heat with the flip of a switch? Doubt it. I also think the cost to reopen in 21/22 would be substantially higher due to increased re-start costs from everything sitting idle. Some more knowledgeable than I can provide more insight.

So no, a full on non-ski season next winter would be a disaster IMHO.
We turn off our heat and most of our electric every summer. No season next year would be bad, but we would survive.

That is really good to hear - thanks for chiming in. Perhaps a well run indy is in better shape to survive this than the conglomerates with significant fixed costs and pushy debt holders? That would be an irony I could live with. But still, lets all root for not only a 20/21 season, but good one - for everyone!

UpperDynamo

Regarding how Mt Baldy is only 45 minutes from Los Angeles and has enough snow ot reopen on 4/23: Summit lift tops out at 8,600 feet, or 8,500 feet above LA!

NewEnglandSkier13

slatham;c-41698 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-41688 wrote
slatham;c-41687 wrote
sugarloaf;c-41675 wroteWhat's the concensus around here if a vast majority of ski areas can't reopen next season. I guess non starting expenses would be minimal going through next Winter, sort of like a Summer hiatus for most ski sreas. Bad for people that depend on seasonal employment.
I think that looking at a non 20/21 as if its a typical summer hiatus is way too optimistic. Many expenses continue - interest on debt, taxes and rent being just a few of the biggies. And can ski areas turn off the electric and heat with the flip of a switch? Doubt it. I also think the cost to reopen in 21/22 would be substantially higher due to increased re-start costs from everything sitting idle. Some more knowledgeable than I can provide more insight.

So no, a full on non-ski season next winter would be a disaster IMHO.
We turn off our heat and most of our electric every summer. No season next year would be bad, but we would survive.
That is really good to hear - thanks for chiming in. Perhaps a well run indy is in better shape to survive this than the conglomerates with significant fixed costs and pushy debt holders? That would be an irony I could live with. But still, lets all root for not only a 20/21 season, but good one - for everyone!

I've heard a few people speculate the same thing. Maybe this is what it takes to stop (or at least slow) the mega corporations.

newpylong

The only issue is the "Indies" still need operating capital if the facility is in caretaker status. You still need to carry Liability Insurance, pay for maintenance, electricity to a small extent, etc. Where is this going to come from with nothing coming in? Most ski areas are broke come spring that is why passes initially began to be sold then. Non-profits can fundraise and for-profits can tap capital reserves and loans, but neither are ideal for an entire season.

No season won't be good for anyone, small or large.

conrad

Mt. Baldy GM on the Storm Skiing Podcast:
https://skiing.substack.com/p/covid-19-and-skiing-podcast-8-mt

rickbolger

Mt Baldy has me thinking this might go well for Vail and Alterra, not good at all for us common folk.

If Vail opens with an Epic® version of the Mt Baldy model it's going to be disastrous for us. Simple economics, supply and demand. If supply is super limited and demand is high, $110 lift tickets will seem cheap. Season pass might become little more than a way to improve your odds in a lottery. Weekday skiing might become more doable for working or work-from-home people, and weekdays might be the only days available in the draw. Or you may not get a guaranteed lift ticket unless you have Epic® qualified lodging. There won't be any traffic going up the access roads, but you might need a $30/day parking permit. Or there might be cars lined up at the gate at 3:00 am, hoping to get in the limited spots. Vail's one-way ATMs (lockers) could be required, in the interest of hygiene and guest safety of course.

Supply and demand -- if it comes to this, Vail will find a way to make revenue even more reliable and the experience more impossible for the Average Joe.

Think of all the NFL stadiums that have fewer cheap seats and more luxury boxes. Giants fans have to buy a "seat license" in order to buy seats. I wouldn't be surprised if Vail has the marketing department working overtime on this.

Again, these are just possible scenarios. Hope I'm wrong!!!

joshua_segal

The two bigger issues than lifts and liftlines:
- ski area revenue comes heavily from the bar and the food service. How to do that is a huge problem
- on cold days, where are you going to put the people to keep them warm? Cannon did a great job of social distancing on their last day of operations:(3/18/20), a warm spring day when it was OK that the capacity of the base lodge was rated at 50 people

I just hope it resolves itself whether thru vaccine or herd immunity by the fall.