2020-21 Indy Pass

Dirk109

Until they are bought.......

riverc0il

Wow, nice! Good on JPR! Keeping Jay is huge for the Indy.

Makes me a bit concerned about crowding next year. The Canadians will be there in force with pent up demand, as will those outside of VT that abided by travel restrictions. Plus, add in Indy passholders.

Chuckstah

Long interview with Cannon GM.
Cannon is #4 in the country in Indy use, second in the East only to Pats Peak interesting.

https://www.skijournal.com/cannons-main-man-has-been-integral-to-ski-areas-capital-achievement/

xlr8r

Sounds like Cannon might have weekend/Holiday Indy pass blackouts going foward

ski_it

Good work Chuckstah. Great for Indy

jaytrem

This morning the ticket lady at Blue Knob did ask if it was my first time here.

trackbiker

Had it not been for Covid I would have bought the Indy Pass this year. That and my daughter and son-in-law, who live in the Boston area, had their first baby this past November so I didn't think they would be skiing much this season. It would have saved me a lot last year. I'll definitely be buying it next season.
Any thoughts on the price for next season with the addition of all the new areas. I think it will definitely being going up but by how much?

Chuckstah

My guess, with no inside knowledge, is in the $229-249 range. I don't think they'd bump it up more than that, but I've been wrong before. Rather than a bigger increase in the base pass, I expect more of the larger areas to increase blackout days, forcing weekend warriors to buy the premium, no blackout pass.

Cannonball

riverc0il;c-47249 wrote
skelley19;c-47200 wroteBetween Jay, Sadleback, Cannon and WV I will definitely get my moneys worth out of this pass next season. It will give me a good excuse to finally get to B. East along with some other New England areas I have never hit.
I wouldn't assume that all of those resorts will be on the Indy next year. I would be surprised if Cannon stays on post COVID, I would be even more surprised about Jay. I think Indy would need to have a tiered pass system with top resorts costing a premium over the standard pass, that would change things. Otherwise, the value has tipped too far into the consumer's favor for it to be worth while for the bigger resorts. They will start losing season pass holders to the Indy if they haven't already with the Indy's value significantly increasing with this year's adds.

I agree. 2 Sundays in a row I've had the misfortune to stand in Cannon's lift ticket line (lost my pass one day, redeemed a voucher for a friend the other day). I didn't keep any exact count but it seemed like the majority of the people in line were there picking up an Indy pass ticket. So those were all people taking up a slot on the reservation system. Which is great for the Indy pass holders, and is great for Cannon since the want people to try it out this season. But it's not great for their day ticket sales year after year.

JMaul

$149 Spring Pass announced

https://www.indyskipass.com/indy-spring-pass/

bousquet19

Chuckstah;c-47329 wroteMy guess, with no inside knowledge, is in the $229-249 range. I don't think they'd bump it up more than that, but I've been wrong before. Rather than a bigger increase in the base pass, I expect more of the larger areas to increase blackout days, forcing weekend warriors to buy the premium, no blackout pass.

Chuckstah, I think your response to trackbiker is on target for the cost of Indy's regular 2021-22 pass.

Jay announced that it was staying on Indy for 2021-22, and Saddleback and Waterville will be there. Given the marketing value of being on Indy, I'm expecting Bolton, Berkshire East, and Catamount to stay on the Indy, and they'll probably add Bousquet (same management as BEast and Catamount).

Magic and Cannon? Hmm ... not sure. You might be right that blackout days will expand and the premium pass w/no blackouts will rise in popularity (and cost).

I have no inside knowledge either, but I'd be surprised to see the base pass price rise above the $229-249 that you predict.

Indy Pass has certainly gotten some good pub this season. Glad to see the attention drawn to the independent ski areas.

Woody
(edited for typos)

Chuckstah

bousquet19;c-47352 wrote
Chuckstah;c-47329 wroteMy guess, with no inside knowledge, is in the $229-249 range. I don't think they'd bump it up more than that, but I've been wrong before. Rather than a bigger increase in the base pass, I expect more of the larger areas to increase blackout days, forcing weekend warriors to buy the premium, no blackout pass.
Chuckstah, I think your response to trackbiker is on target for the cost of Indy's regular 2021-22 pass.

Jay announced that it was staying on Indy for 2021-22, and Saddleback and Waterville will be there. Given the marketing value of being on Indy, I'm expecting Bolton, Berkshire East, and Catamount to stay on the Indy, and they'll probably add Bousquet (same management as BEast and Catamount).

Magic and Cannon? Hmm ... not sure. You might be right that blackout days will expand and the premium pass w/no blackouts will rise in popularity (and cost).

I have no inside knowledge either, but I'd be surprised to see the base pass price rise above the $229-249 that you predict.

Indy Pass has certainly gotten some good pub this season. Glad to see the attention drawn to the independent ski areas.

Woody
(edited for typos)

Cannon has stated they plan to stay on. (see the interview I posted above). Magic is one where I'd possibly expect more blackout days, but if the quad is finally running they will have much greater capacity. This year's Indylimit at Magic was 100 per day. Maybe they keep the reservation system and stick with a daily limit?

joshua_segal

Maybe I missed it earlier but I didn't see it. What's in it for the ski areas? With the price of the pass and the admin overhead for producing the pass, the ski areas can't be getting much revenue from it.

And most ski areas are already running at (or over) capacity on weekends. It only makes sense to me if these are non-holiday weekday passes.

Can someone enlighten me?

bousquet19

joshua_segal;c-47357 wroteMaybe I missed it earlier but I didn't see it. What's in it for the ski areas? With the price of the pass and the admin overhead for producing the pass, the ski areas can't be getting much revenue from it.

And most ski areas are already running at (or over) capacity on weekends. It only makes sense to me if these are non-holiday weekday passes.

Can someone enlighten me?

As I see it, the Indy Pass is a marketing tool that brings skiers to areas that they wouldn't have otherwise visited.

Cofounder Doug Fish explains it this way: " ... The Indy Pass — is designed to expose smaller independent mountains to a wider audience and help them compete in the current era of mega pass consolidation." Here's the link to the NYSkiblog interview: https://nyskiblog.com/doug-fish-and-the-indy-pass/

Woody

conrad

I think the admin cut is in a fairly reasonable range, like 15%, definitely not 25%. Can't remember exactly, but it must have been mentioned on the Storm Skiing Podcast interview.
I wonder if they'll ever break into different offerings for different prices. I.e. maybe a $299 Indy pass including a couple extra juggernauts and the $199 version including a smaller selection. What ever happens I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what the future brings. Only a few ski areas present in Canada so that is a big opportunity as well.

joshua_segal

bousquet19;c-47360 wrote
joshua_segal;c-47357 wroteMaybe I missed it earlier but I didn't see it. What's in it for the ski areas? With the price of the pass and the admin overhead for producing the pass, the ski areas can't be getting much revenue from it.

And most ski areas are already running at (or over) capacity on weekends. It only makes sense to me if these are non-holiday weekday passes.

Can someone enlighten me?
As I see it, the Indy Pass is a marketing tool that brings skiers to areas that they wouldn't have otherwise visited.

Cofounder Doug Fish explains it this way: " ... The Indy Pass — is designed to expose smaller independent mountains to a wider audience and help them compete in the current era of mega pass consolidation." Here's the link to the NYSkiblog interview: https://nyskiblog.com/doug-fish-and-the-indy-pass/

Woody

Exactly, but most of these ski areas are operating beyond capacity on weekends. Why would they piss off their paying customers by crowding an overcrowded area with those skiing with almost free passes.

Chuckstah

The ski areas get paid for every visit. The pricing is based on 4 visits per passholders, on average. If the average visits goes up too much, the price will go up, or mountains not getting value will leave the pass. There are 2 tiers now, one with blackout days, one without. I expect the list of resorts with blackout days will grow substantially. Most of these Indy areas are well below capacity on the vast majority of days in a non pandemic season. If the marketing aspect seems worth the limited payout ski resorts will stay, if not, they'll be gone. None of these passes stay the same for long.

joshua_segal

Chuckstah;c-47363 wroteThe ski areas get paid for every visit. The pricing is based on 4 visits per passholders, on average. If the average visits goes up too much, the price will go up, or mountains not getting value will leave the pass. There are 2 tiers now, one with blackout days, one without. I expect the list of resorts with blackout days will grow substantially. Most of these Indy areas are well below capacity on the vast majority of days in a non pandemic season. If the marketing aspect seems worth the limited payout ski resorts will stay, if not, they'll be gone. None of these passes stay the same for long.

Good reply. So if my ski area gets 2-visits from an Indy Pass holder, how much money actually comes my way?

xlr8r

According to the interview with Doug Fish on the Storm Skiing Podcast, Indy Pass takes a 15% marketing/management fee, and the rest of the revenue is distributed to the ski areas. Last season each ski area got the same redemption rate of $48. It seems last season all they did was take the total pass revenue, take a 15% cut, then distribute the remaining money evenly based on redemptions at each mountain, which ended up being $48 per visit. Fish stated that most ski areas even large resorts are happy with getting about $40 per day as when you sum up all the season pass revenue and day ticket revenue, then divide it by total skier days, the average skier day ends up being around $40. This averages out season pass holders who get their rate down to $10-$20
per day and the people who spend over $100 for a day ticket

This season the payout will not be even as they now have a payout scale based on the rate of each area's day ticket. This is because some ski areas last season were getting paid $48 per visit when their day ticket rate was less than that, and others had day ticket rates over $100. This change has made the pass a lot more enticing to larger mountains tha have higher priced day tickets. The price of the pass will increase if the average skier days goes much beyond 4 visits.

So far I have 5 days on the pass this season and hope to get a total of 8 days on it by the end of season.

bousquet19

Very helpful details, xlr8r. Thanks for your summary. I need to listen to that podcast.

As Chuckstah points out, these arrangements are fluid. It sounds like more blackouts, a higher base price, and, perhaps, more tiers for the Indy Pass are on the way for 2021-22.

Remember when our only decision was to buy/not buy the season's pass at our home area? Then came BOGOs, 50% off coupons, reciprocal agreements, and gas station premiums. Then the mega passes. Now this new game-changer, the Indy Pass.

The game changes each year.

Woody

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