joshua_segal
bousquet19;c-47360 wrotejoshua_segal;c-47357 wroteMaybe I missed it earlier but I didn't see it. What's in it for the ski areas? With the price of the pass and the admin overhead for producing the pass, the ski areas can't be getting much revenue from it.
And most ski areas are already running at (or over) capacity on weekends. It only makes sense to me if these are non-holiday weekday passes.
Can someone enlighten me?
As I see it, the Indy Pass is a marketing tool that brings skiers to areas that they wouldn't have otherwise visited.
Cofounder Doug Fish explains it this way: " ... The Indy Pass — is designed to expose smaller independent mountains to a wider audience and help them compete in the current era of mega pass consolidation." Here's the link to the NYSkiblog interview:
https://nyskiblog.com/doug-fish-and-the-indy-pass/
Woody
Exactly, but most of these ski areas are operating beyond capacity on weekends. Why would they piss off their paying customers by crowding an overcrowded area with those skiing with almost free passes.
Chuckstah
The ski areas get paid for every visit. The pricing is based on 4 visits per passholders, on average. If the average visits goes up too much, the price will go up, or mountains not getting value will leave the pass. There are 2 tiers now, one with blackout days, one without. I expect the list of resorts with blackout days will grow substantially. Most of these Indy areas are well below capacity on the vast majority of days in a non pandemic season. If the marketing aspect seems worth the limited payout ski resorts will stay, if not, they'll be gone. None of these passes stay the same for long.
joshua_segal
Chuckstah;c-47363 wroteThe ski areas get paid for every visit. The pricing is based on 4 visits per passholders, on average. If the average visits goes up too much, the price will go up, or mountains not getting value will leave the pass. There are 2 tiers now, one with blackout days, one without. I expect the list of resorts with blackout days will grow substantially. Most of these Indy areas are well below capacity on the vast majority of days in a non pandemic season. If the marketing aspect seems worth the limited payout ski resorts will stay, if not, they'll be gone. None of these passes stay the same for long.
Good reply. So if my ski area gets 2-visits from an Indy Pass holder, how much money actually comes my way?
xlr8r
According to the interview with Doug Fish on the Storm Skiing Podcast, Indy Pass takes a 15% marketing/management fee, and the rest of the revenue is distributed to the ski areas. Last season each ski area got the same redemption rate of $48. It seems last season all they did was take the total pass revenue, take a 15% cut, then distribute the remaining money evenly based on redemptions at each mountain, which ended up being $48 per visit. Fish stated that most ski areas even large resorts are happy with getting about $40 per day as when you sum up all the season pass revenue and day ticket revenue, then divide it by total skier days, the average skier day ends up being around $40. This averages out season pass holders who get their rate down to $10-$20
per day and the people who spend over $100 for a day ticket
This season the payout will not be even as they now have a payout scale based on the rate of each area's day ticket. This is because some ski areas last season were getting paid $48 per visit when their day ticket rate was less than that, and others had day ticket rates over $100. This change has made the pass a lot more enticing to larger mountains tha have higher priced day tickets. The price of the pass will increase if the average skier days goes much beyond 4 visits.
So far I have 5 days on the pass this season and hope to get a total of 8 days on it by the end of season.
bousquet19
Very helpful details, xlr8r. Thanks for your summary. I need to listen to that podcast.
As Chuckstah points out, these arrangements are fluid. It sounds like more blackouts, a higher base price, and, perhaps, more tiers for the Indy Pass are on the way for 2021-22.
Remember when our only decision was to buy/not buy the season's pass at our home area? Then came BOGOs, 50% off coupons, reciprocal agreements, and gas station premiums. Then the mega passes. Now this new game-changer, the Indy Pass.
The game changes each year.
Woody
rickbolger
so it sounds something like an old time farmer's cooperative, except it's for ski resorts. Seems like a pretty good thing for the independents. And I wouldn't be surprised if, as it gains ground, some resorts that want to participate will be excluded for not meeting whatever standards evolve.
NELSAP
I spoke to one of my contacts at an Indy Pass area, and yes, they do get about what Xlr8r stated above, and are very happy with the compensation rate.
jaytrem
I've probably shared a chair with 25-35 people on my Southeast trip. Want to guess what percent have heard of Indy....
Zero point zero!
Kinda surprised. Many know about Epic and Ikon. One guy was real happy to hear about Indy. He's planning an RV trip to New England and was disappointed that Epic was no longer for sale.
bousquet19
Hey jaytrem, glad you went on your SEast trip!
Where did you go, and how was it?
Woody
jaytrem
bousquet19;c-47410 wroteHey jaytrem, glad you went on your SEast trip!
Where did you go, and how was it?
Woody
In TN now, just finished up at Ober a little while ago. Went right to guest services for my ticket, so thanks again! Trip has been just about perfect other than a near full day of rain at Canaan Valley. I did make it past 4 though, so couldn't have been too bad. Still have a bunch of days left. I'll keep taking pics and hopefully be ambitious and do a trip report.
Indy update, didn't ride with anybody today at either Beech or Ober. Knowledge of Indy remains at zero point zero. Even the guy at Ober guest services didn't know much about it. Was surprised when he was able to get my picture to show up on his screen. Woody was probably the only other person to use one here.
riverc0il
Not surprised that southeastern skiers would not be aware of the Indy. It really isn't for them. If I lived down there, I would be focusing on flights west for ski trips and the corporate passes (or bundling lodging, travel, and skiing and park it at one major area). I certainly wouldn't travel west to ski western areas on the Indy pass, so I wouldn't expect south eastern skiers to travel to the northeast to ski on the Indy, either. It is a day tripper and weekend warrior pass option.
Chuckstah
Magic confirmed today that they'll be back next season, and hinted at 75 areas onboard. Hmm.
Remski
Two new additions, Eagle Point Utah and Sundown Iowa.
Chuckstah
I've been to Eagle Point a couple of times. It's worth a stop if you happen to be in the area, but I wouldn't travel to far for it.
Strange resort. The upper mountain and lodge serves beginner and intermediate terrain, while the lower portion is advanced. A couple of trails connect the upper area to the lower. One crosses a paved road, and once you commit to the lower area a shuttle bus is the only way back to the summit. On my second visit we just parked at the lower lodge. It was easiest to leave from there. The long access road up was gnarly on a powder day.
As for the place in Iowa? I've never set foot in the state and this won't get me there, but more options are always good.
Chuckstah
4 new resort s to be announced Tuesday. Any guesses? I'd like to see something like Owl's Head for the Canada add to pair with Jay.
xlr8r
Yeah I'm hoping for an Eastern Townships area as well
Peter
Sounds like the Canada one will be in Alberta. Already 2 in BC and 1 in AB. None in the East so far.
LaurelHillCrazie
In western PA, I can't see Seven Springs' family of ski areas joining the Indy Pass unless they limit it to Laurel or Hidden Valley or perhaps black-out weekends at Seven Springs. Maybe little Mt. Pleasant near Edinboro, PA could be the PA resort. I'm guessing it will be a Pocono or eastern PA resort. Elk Mountain would be nice. I never skied Montage or Camelback. Maybe Blue Mountain to the south?
trackbiker
For PA I would want it to be Elk but I think a more likely candidate is Montage. Montage needs a reason for Philly and NYC area people to drive past the Poconos. Big Bear is another possibility but the terrain there is pretty tame. Camelback and Blue already have enough crowds.
For NY I would want it to be Plattekill but it's been rumored that Laslo is not interested in joining.
conrad
More than a rumor on Plattekill. When they were on the Storm Skiing Podcast they said the Indy Pass was too discounted for them. But with the new price point you never know. I bet it will be another area, though.
