What makes the perfect glade?

IBRAKEFORTBARS

Seeing the love that Magic gets on their FB/Instagram feed from locals that currently are cleaning out one or more of their glades coupled with what has been done at Crotched’s glades got me thinking. How would one describe the ideal glade? Is it pitch and/or contour, tree spacing, the absence of rocks and broken tree limbs, or something else?

Enquiring minds wants to know!😏

IBRAKE

xlr8r

being clean or having deep enough cover to not have to worry ruining my skis on rocks poking out everywhere. I also like a wide tree spacing as I am a big guy with long skis

NewEnglandSkier13

There isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.

IBRAKEFORTBARS

NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.

Now THAT is smart! I must see and ski these glades.

NewEnglandSkier13

IBRAKEFORTBARS;c-43621 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.
Now THAT is smart! I must see and ski these glades.

We'd love to have you visit sometime and hopefully be able to ride the circa 1961 JW Penney & Sons T-bar!

slatham

NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.

Very true. After being in the glades at Magic today I would add: It’s finding the best line given rocks, trees, streams, and fall line. Something you can ski but not without paying attention and being sharp!

lotsoskiing

-Clear of deadfall ("hoops")
-Not skied or ridden by low-skill participants who sideslip the snow off
-Open enough to allow for real turns, not just hacked jump turns
-I am a fan of low-angle glades, unless very deep snow, then the steep glades are a hoot.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.

A lot depends on conditions of the day. It also depends on how much natural snow there is. In Southern NH, we don't get a lot of natural snow, so if we want to ski glades for more than a few days per season, they need to be de-stumped and de-rocked.

Stacking cut logs is good technique but you need more snow. Elsewise, you can buried a tip under the logs. (NES13: What is the average annual snowfall at BMOM?)

NewEnglandSkier13

joshua_segal;c-43629 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.
A lot depends on conditions of the day. It also depends on how much natural snow there is. In Southern NH, we don't get a lot of natural snow, so if we want to ski glades for more than a few days per season, they need to be de-stumped and de-rocked.

Stacking cut logs is good technique but you need more snow. Elsewise, you can buried a tip under the logs. (NES13: What is the average annual snowfall at BMOM?)

Around 120"

The key for log stacking is for the top layer to be much smaller cut limbs which provide a smoother surface that can be skied with less snow and reduces chances of tips getting caught. Similar techniques can be used around rocks so they can be covered with snow easier (basically built-up brush and logs around rocks making a ramp all around the rock).

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-43632 wrote
joshua_segal;c-43629 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.
A lot depends on conditions of the day. It also depends on how much natural snow there is. In Southern NH, we don't get a lot of natural snow, so if we want to ski glades for more than a few days per season, they need to be de-stumped and de-rocked.

Stacking cut logs is good technique but you need more snow. Elsewise, you can buried a tip under the logs. (NES13: What is the average annual snowfall at BMOM?)
Around 120"

The key for log stacking is for the top layer to be much smaller cut limbs which provide a smoother surface that can be skied with less snow and reduces chances of tips getting caught. Similar techniques can be used around rocks so they can be covered with snow easier (basically built-up brush and logs around rocks making a ramp all around the rock).

Good technique given the quantity of snow you receive.

That's about double what we have been getting. Most rocks on the glades are small and can be easily removed with a shovel. Some of the medium to larger ones can be removed with an 8' prybar and a well placed fulcrum. Stumps are much harder to deal with. IMO, the effort is worth it (at least in a belt that doesn't get that much natural snow).

TomWhite

Clear glade so minimum cover is needed. That includes:
1. Small rocks removed and piled so easy to see and ski around.
2. Small and dead trees cut to provide lines to ski through.
3. Small stumps cut flush to ground. This protects against skier/rider “knock over”.
4. Large rocks and stumps: cover with branches as markers.
5. Pile cut logs on uphill side of large rocks/stumps as BMOM does.
6. Cut lower 6’ of pine tree branches and all lower dead hardwood branches.
7. Wood chips:
Bring chipper to glade or to nearby trail transport chips into glade. Cut the many dead branches/trees into chips. Primary use is to fill in/cover rocky areas where rocks cannot be removed. Provide paths through these areas with minimum snow cover.

riverc0il

Lines, sight lines, and aesthetics.

Lines should flow well without sudden, dramatic changes that cause all skiers to turn hard in the same spots (unless it is a super narrow corridor, in which case there is no way to avoid that). Include optional terrain and topography features but not at the expense of the main line.

Sight lines should be constantly changing, not wide open, providing visual and directional changes that are engaging and interesting. You should be able to see far enough ahead to plan out line choice and get a rhythm but also have occasional changes (gradually implemented , not hard angles).

Tree types can influence aesthetics. Birch glades are great but are prone to failure if wide open and not supported by other tree types that can control the wind and elements.

Mind the ceiling when maintaining glades, height of branches needs to be controlled as a few feet of snow really lowers what might look like an acceptable ceiling.

Tree spacing and pitch are personal preference. Be mindful of anticipated traffic volume for steeper and narrow chutes that can get skied off quickly with limited traffic. Places that cause skiers concern and become "hard turn/stopping" areas need to be limited and planned for.

IBRAKEFORTBARS

NewEnglandSkier13;c-43624 wrote
IBRAKEFORTBARS;c-43621 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-43618 wroteThere isn't one ideal glade, the variety is what makes them so much fun! Personally I prefer a tighter spacing. The best glades are regularly maintained and all brush and cut logs are moved or piled in ways to make the glade skiable with minimal cover. At Black we stack the cut logs in ways to form jumps or other interesting features.
Now THAT is smart! I must see and ski these glades.
We'd love to have you visit sometime and hopefully be able to ride the circa 1961 JW Penney & Sons T-bar!

Sounds great! Once this COVID crap is well behind us a ski trip to ME and NH is well in order. After all, make the world a better place: ski both Black Mountains with a smile on your face!😎

IBRAKE

NELSAP

For more intermediate skiers, a glade run like Birch Run-Sleeper at Sugarbush may be ideal. Groomed with wide spaced trees, tree islands, and chutes. It can be a lot of fun to ski, especially as it gets lot of sun. I've never gotten bored lapping those.

joshua_segal

1. Small rocks removed and piled so easy to see and ski around.
Agree
2. Small and dead trees cut to provide lines to ski through.
Agree
3. Small stumps cut flush to ground. This protects against skier/rider “knock over”.
I'll go further: If possible, remove the stump. In a year or two erosion will expose the tops.
4. Large rocks and stumps: cover with branches as markers.
Agree, but we may have a difference of opinion of what constitutes "large rocks"
5. Pile cut logs on uphill side of large rocks/stumps as BMOM does.
I prefer to pile brush and rocks that I moved to clearly block access to these
6. Cut lower 6’ of pine tree branches and all lower dead hardwood branches.
Got to be at least 8' to 10'. I remember skiing Dark Wizard at Saddleback with 8' of snow on the ground. That was way to tight for me.
12. Wood chips:
Bring chipper to glade or to nearby trail transport chips into glade. Cut the many dead branches/trees into chips. Primary use is to fill in/cover rocky areas where rocks cannot be removed. Provide paths through these areas with minimum snow cover.
Good idea - if you have access to a chipper. Most of us don't.

Harvey

One thing about Gore... the underlying rock is generally very smooth. This get us into the trees on less snow then at some other mountains I've skied.

Gore also has a culture of tree skiing (and maintenance) and management is very understanding about it.

TomWhite

joshua_segal;c-43645 wrote1.
6. Cut lower 6’ of pine tree branches and all lower dead hardwood branches.
Got to be at least 8' to 10'. I remember skiing Dark Wizard at Saddleback with 8' of snow on the ground. That was way to tight for me.

I didn't want sound pushy. Yes, 8' is good. That's about as high someone standing safely on the ground can cut. That works for me. Keep limbs low at the sides of glades for wind stoppage and separation from open trails.

joshua_segal

TomWhite;c-43651 wrote
joshua_segal;c-43645 wrote 6. Cut lower 6’ of pine tree branches and all lower dead hardwood branches.
Got to be at least 8' to 10'. I remember skiing Dark Wizard at Saddleback with 8' of snow on the ground. That was way to tight for me.

I didn't want sound pushy. Yes, 8' is good. That's about as high someone standing safely on the ground can cut. That works for me. Keep limbs low at the sides of glades for wind stoppage and separation from open trails.

You had your reply nicely ordered the way I like to make lists. So I provided an orderly reply. I don't think you were pushy in any way. Hopefully, neither was I!

TomWhite

“Pushy” was too vague. I was only talking about cutting too many tree branches.

riverc0il

8' from the highest winter snow pack is sufficient. 8' during maintenance time is no where near enough. Maybe for southern New England where 2' snow pack in the woods is a lot.

But in northern New England, 8' clearance from dry ground would be impassable for most people during the winter. In NoVT, the snowpack can occasionally get to 8' deep in places. NNH can get to 4' deep at times. Winter hikers can attest to this.

Limbs are cut using saws with long handle pole pruners/saws. These can easily reach well over 10' off the ground to give a proper 10' clearance. Not a problem at all.

Below the ceiling, limbs need to be shorn to the trunk, never left extended or cut in half. I have done line maintenance and seen the results of poor clearance vertical and horizontally. Things look a lot different with and without snow cover.