Vail Stinks 2020/2021

NewEnglandSkier13

rickbolger;c-46175 wroteand one other thing. Sunday River has 29 miles open today, Wildcat has five.

Camelback, in the Poconos, has almost double Wildcat's mileage today. Something is obviously wrong

We even have close to that amount open at BMOM, which doesn't seem right. That's the amount of terrain they normally have open in November.

shpride

I read a theory on AZ that the snowmaking team was moved over to Attitash so combine their teams. It doesn't seem too far fetched because Attitash has been blasting the mountain with snow lately from what I hear. The problem at Attitash has been trails have been sitting with whales that haven't been groomed out. I'll hopefully be up there Thursday to check it out first hand.

rickbolger

shpride;c-46180 wroteThe problem at Attitash has been trails have been sitting with whales that haven't been groomed out.

I saw this ten days ago. couldn't believe it.

Brklynskier

rickbolger;c-46175 wroteand one other thing. Sunday River has 29 miles open today, Wildcat has five.

Camelback, in the Poconos, has almost double Wildcat's mileage today. Something is obviously wrong

How does Camelback compare to Vail owned Jack Frost / Big Boulder? That should be telling as they are in the same neighborhood.

NewEnglandSkier13

In other Vail stinks news, Hunter Mountain has a new uphill policy and it's pretty ridiculous. Uphill travel is only allowed during the two hours before operating hours, but you cannot ski down until the mountain is open. This has got to be the most restrictive and ridiculous uphill policy ever.

rgrwilco

Brklynskier;c-46188 wrote
rickbolger;c-46175 wroteand one other thing. Sunday River has 29 miles open today, Wildcat has five.

Camelback, in the Poconos, has almost double Wildcat's mileage today. Something is obviously wrong
How does Camelback compare to Vail owned Jack Frost / Big Boulder? That should be telling as they are in the same neighborhood.

Kind of like what’s going on at wildcat. Minimal snowmaking, barely any trails or lifts open.

joshua_segal

rgrwilco;c-46193 wrote
Brklynskier;c-46188 wrote
rickbolger;c-46175 wroteand one other thing. Sunday River has 29 miles open today, Wildcat has five.

Camelback, in the Poconos, has almost double Wildcat's mileage today. Something is obviously wrong
How does Camelback compare to Vail owned Jack Frost / Big Boulder? That should be telling as they are in the same neighborhood.
Kind of like what’s going on at wildcat. Minimal snowmaking, barely any trails or lifts open.

Based on the snowmaking that I’m seeing at crotched Mountain, the shortage of snow at Vail resorts must be an issue of local management. They’ve made snow here, even in what I would’ve considered marginal conditions.

hazlntskier

Crotched has done very good job making snow including re-surfacing and opening terrain. I was there on Sunday and it was obvious there work paid off. Fairly large crowd, but most of the trails held up very well all day. Sunapee on the other hand took two plus weeks to open Ridge which is critical for lower intermediates. They are following the minimal route mantra. Saturday was a zoo and even south peak was getting skied off. The difference between the two is huge. When Mueller's ran Sunapee they had almost all of the terrain open before MLK and there is no way it will be that way this year. They still haven't even started making snow for the parks.

Remski

At Sunapee they are blowing hard but the same as Attitash the trails are full of huge and I means HUGE whales for days on end. It looks to me, they wait to groom out the trails just before the wknds. To be fair the trails they open have a great base, deep and edge to edge on most trails.

xlr8r

Sunapee has been focusing on the Main Mountain and Sunbowl. By the end of this week every snowmaking trail serviced by the Sunapee Express and Sunbowl Express will be open Edge to Edge. They also will have pretty much all of South Peak open from the looks of it. They have started on the Spruce area as well. It is North Peak that has been neglected and it looks like they will do the diamonds there last. Overall Sunapee has been pretty consistent with snowmaking output year to year, its just some trails have had their priority changed. Outer Ridge and Eastside are open early this year but Flying Goose and Lynx are very late.

teighs

Huge whales need time to drain, if you open them up too soon all you do is expose saturated snow to cold temperatures that need a zamboni.

Remski

teighs;c-46212 wroteHuge whales need time to drain, if you open them up too soon all you do is expose saturated snow to cold temperatures that need a zamboni.

I know MM snow needs to drain, just saying. What I wasn’t aware of is that those big whales need a lot more time to drain. Thanks for the heads up! Last 2 outings have skied on conditions that are very encouraging. Despite this lackluster season their conditions are outstanding. “Sorry for spilling the beans”.

Remski

Remski;c-46214 wrote
teighs;c-46212 wroteHuge whales need time to drain, if you open them up too soon all you do is expose saturated snow to cold temperatures that need a zamboni.
I know MM snow needs to drain, just saying. What I wasn’t aware of is that those big whales need a lot more time to drain. Thanks for the heads up! Last 2 outings have skied on conditions that are very encouraging. Despite this lackluster season their conditions are outstanding. “Sorry for spilling the beans” and yes VAIL SUCKS!!!

hazlntskier

Yes I know the whales need time to rest and drain before the grooming starts. My point was it appeared that the whales were left for several days almost a whole week before any grooming. I wonder if they are short handed, either because of layoffs or lack of people. Sunapee is hiring apparently.

Remski

Okay

shpride

As you mentioned Attitash is the same way with whales and some feel like they were sitting there for weeks.

DrJeff

One thing that you have to remember about how much water content is in a whale. Let's say an area goes on a 3 day run ahead of opening up a trail.

Let's say the guns are running at a moderate to high water flow rate of 100 gallons a minute.

That 3 day run is going to put a little under 400000 gallons of water through that one gun into the whale. Sure there's some water loss to evaporation before the product hits the ground, but that not a significant amount of water.

Given that one of the industry benchmarks for water use is 1000000 gallons per acre of snowmaking terrain over the course of the season, getting some water out of the fresh product over some time certainly has benefits when it comes to the surface of the finished product once it's pushed out

rickbolger

yes. weeks at Attitash. the water is in the bay at Old Orchard Beach by now.

joshua_segal

Grooming too early yields death cookies. I kept skiing such a run a few years ago. While I don't completely understand the mechanism, each run featured more and ever growing death cookies. Perhaps one of you who understands the process better than I do could comment/elaborate.

obienick

WCVB on Vail refusing refunds/credits they promised

https://www.wcvb.com/article/skiers-snowboarders-frustrated-with-vail-resorts-refusal-of-refunds-credits/35219813

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