Vail Sucks 2021/20??

Ski them all

Ive skled every mountaain in vt nh ma and ive been here sice 2004, i never heard of an epic pass until about 4 months ago i skiid exclusively in ma lst year. I fell in love with moutain biking at sunapee this year which led to my epic pass which is the best deal in skiing Right now today! Somehow sunapee is still new to me and im loving it and its proximity to my home in lowell ma. Yes i had to cancel a trip to wildcat due to mother nature mainly. The trail count is about to quadruple at sunapee from what ive observed. Its only december..... stowe is still stowe! and mt snow is still mt snow! You guys love mt snow! ? ! :wink:

rickbolger

Indeed I do love Mount Snow! And I don't have to go there when it's overpriced, overcrowded, and understaffed.

slatham

tedede;c-52292 wrote
yardsale;c-52282 wroteas in the other thread - what a disaster
In 2015 Crotched opened on the 26th.

So much caterwauling.

2015/16 was a terrible year, especially the fall. Way warmer than this year - some areas in VT were not open on Christmas. Apples and oranges.

trackbiker

"Indeed I do love Mount Snow! And I don't have to go there when it's overpriced, overcrowded, and understaffed. "

You forgot....And pay for parking for all that. ;)

ciscokid

Always loved Steve Miller

Come on take the money and run

ski_it

bousquet19;c-52276 wrote
ski_it;c-52138 wroteObie has said "But family and friends who didn’t use their pass and made reservations (cancelled or no showed) got credits."

Ok folks, how many actual 1st hand cases of people do you know who got full refunds for cancelling or no showing for one Core Reservation and also didn't use their one day last season?

(snip)

I am one who received full credit. I had an Epic NE Midweek Senior Pass for 2020-21. I made 5 reservations (VT + NH), but later I cancelled all 5 because covid-related restrictions prevented my travel from Virginia to NH and VT.

Epic provided me with full credit, which I used for a 2021-22 pass ... which I haven't used yet.

Woody

Hi & thanks Woody. I'm glad YOU got a credit. Really I am. Totally unfair to us, but so is life.

Now do you know if this met their UPDATED 2/01/2021 - 11 pages of Terms & Conditions for 2020/2021? I tried to read that section a couple times and my mind went blanker, as yours will if you read further. I had to turn it over to my Lawyer J. Noble Daggett, although the UPDATED terms pretty much say you can't sue them anyway anyhow for anything, but if you do it has to be in Colorado. I say UPDATED because it was exactly 2 months after our claim was 1st sent. Any UPDATE can't be in the consumers favor.

Thanks to Conrad's suggestion, I filed a BBB complaint and Vail Resorts actually responded. Their NEW claims company will review our claim(s) (they are not for core reservations or general travel restrictions) & we can submit more documents if we wish. They acknowledged there had on occasion been some communication issues with the previous claims company. They are sticking to the exact letter(s) of the T & C. There are NO refunds. There is no guarantee of an outcome. They may take up to 30 days to review.

Ted stop reading now - Toxic/caustic part: Then IF they concur, probably they will give us credit for new passes this season, but pass sales are over, so it will take 3 months to straighten out because their customer services sucks so bad and the season will be over.

Merry Christmas & Think snow over non- Vail Resorts, Inc. properties.
Ho Ho Ho

tedede

ski_it;c-52330 wroteTed stop reading now

So, I it doesn't bother me if everyone wants an outlet to vent (have at it right here, caterwauling and all), my beef is this thread has now has metastasized to

Joshua's Crotched thread
Abubob's tshirt page
Any mention of Mt Snow
Vail Nails it

If you come to a Vail property and experience something you are not happy with, by all means if you feel the need to share it on SnowJournal, I am not asking you to stop. Put it in the appropriate mountain thread so leadership can see it. IMO, you should also approach the mountain GM or someone in leadership and describe the situation. If you have a remedy, any good leader loves a problem bundled with an idea for a solution. If it's Crotched on a Saturday, I'd be happy to make a proper introduction.

What really getting annoying is the ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth from the chorus of the nattering nabobs of negativity (you know who you are). This attitude is ruining what I (and I expect others) have enjoyed as a fun place to hang out online.

FWIW, No I'm not the thread police. No, I'm not speaking on behalf of Vail. Yes, this is my personal opinion.

newpylong

As someone who was in the industry, it was an unwritten rule to not criticize other mountains.

The handling of Vail's Eastern properties (NH to be particular) has erased all semblance of decorum when it comes to this. It is open season and it will continue to be until if and when they either A) sell them, or b) stop treating them like a Walmart chain.

I certainly can appreciate criticism accompanied with a solution, (nothing is worse than bitching with no alternative action), however in many of these cases, the solutions are so obvious and the guilty parties probably so aware than it would not do any good.

As for sticking to the thread topic, I am all for that!

jaytrem

tedede;c-52292 wroteIMO, you should also approach the mountain GM or someone in leadership and describe the situation. If you have a remedy, any good leader loves a problem bundled with an idea for a solution.

I'd be shocked if the local managers have much leeway to do anything without permission from Colorado. They're probably as frustrated as their customers. I did fill out an online Mount Snow survey that they sent me. Respectfully told them my opinion on some things both good and bad. If it was for a NH resort it would have been much more about the bad. Clearly not a good situation over there.

joshua_segal

tedede;c-52347 wrote
ski_it;c-52330 wroteTed stop reading now
So, I it doesn't bother me if everyone wants an outlet to vent (have at it right here, caterwauling and all), my beef is this thread has now has metastasized to

Joshua's Crotched thread

Abubob's tshirt page

Any mention of Mt Snow

Vail Nails it

If you come to a Vail property and experience something you are not happy with, by all means if you feel the need to share it on SnowJournal, I am not asking you to stop. Put it in the appropriate mountain thread so leadership can see it. IMO, you should also approach the mountain GM or someone in leadership and describe the situation. If you have a remedy, any good leader loves a problem bundled with an idea for a solution. If it's Crotched on a Saturday, I'd be happy to make a proper introduction.

What really getting annoying is the ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth from the chorus of the nattering nabobs of negativity (you know who you are). This attitude is ruining what I (and I expect others) have enjoyed as a fun place to hang out online.

FWIW, No I'm not the thread police. No, I'm not speaking on behalf of Vail. Yes, this is my personal opinion.

I agree mostly with Ted's posting above.

The reason I like SJ better than the other forums is that we have always been a group of dedicated skiers who don't spam each other.

I try to minimize censorship and thread closings, but if you want to hate on Vail, please confine it to this one thread.

BTW: CM was one of the top-rated Vail properties on Customer Service and I suspect that it is because of people who work here (inclding SJers tedede, nelsbeer and yours truly) who really love this place whether it was a Peak Property or a Vail property.

tedede

jaytrem;c-52357 wroteI'd be shocked if the local managers have much leeway to do anything without permission from Colorado. They're probably as frustrated as their customers.

Why not speak to one directly and ask vs presuming?

jaytrem

tedede;c-52375 wrote Why not speak to one directly and ask vs presuming?

Good grief!

1. I generally don't ski at Vail's NH areas. So it's probably not worth the drive over there to ask.

2. I prefer to presume the local managers don't totally suck at their job.

3. I've heard enough similar things from friends that work (or worked) at other Vail owned areas, I can't imagine it would be any different there. Many have moved on when given an opportunity to do so.

4. You really need to get over this. I'm not a big vocal basher of Vail, but they brought this all on themselves. Your basically yelling "hey customers, stop not liking us". That doesn't work, you're not helping the situation.

joshua_segal

jaytrem;c-52394 wrote
tedede;c-52375 wrote Why not speak to one directly and ask vs presuming?
...

3. I've heard enough similar things from friends that work (or worked) at other Vail owned areas, I can't imagine it would be any different there. Many have moved on when given an opportunity to do so.

...

Quite frankly, I think you're way out of line making this kind of comment about CM's management not knowing the people involved or why their predecessors moved on.

jaytrem

joshua_segal;c-52395 wrote Quite frankly, I think you're way out of line making this kind of comment about CM's management not knowing the people involved or why their predecessors moved on.

Check my Alpinezone avatar, NO HOMERS CLUB. Okay, Homer, exactly what did I say that offends you? Seems like I'm giving CMs (and Vails other NH) management the benifit of the doubt. I'm going with the assumption that the obvious disaster isn't totally their fault. Are your saying most things are actually being controlled locally, and the NH disaster is their fault? Seems like Pats doesn't have so many issues, maybe Vail should try to hire a few managers from over there. I just know a lot of talented people that bailed at a couple Vail owned resorts. I do miss some of them, but I guess I can get some free tix to Camelback!

tedede

jaytrem;c-52394 wrote 4. You really need to get over this. I'm not a big vocal basher of Vail, but they brought this all on themselves. Your basically yelling "hey customers, stop not liking us". That doesn't work, you're not helping the situation.

I'm simply asking folks to confine general comments about Vail to this thread and specific comments about a Vail property to the appropriate SJ thread. I'm not "yelling" at anyone and I don't "need" to do anything, as I've already shared my thoughts.

If you don't think I'm helping the situation, I'm curious what you think would help.

trackbiker

The message I am getting from the Vail employees, and I agree, is that people shouldn't blame the lower level employees for situations beyond their control at Vail. They are doing their jobs and most employees are dedicated and doing it well. It's like don't blame the waitress when your steak is over or under cooked. She didn't cook it.
On the other hand; They should relay the complaints they are getting up to management. Whether management does anything about it is also out of their control. The only decision they can make is to continue working there or not. Just like the customers can continue to ski at Vail resorts or not. Based on what I've been seeing on the four ski sites I follow, a lot are choosing not to. Some took the bait and couldn't refuse the 20% discounted pass this year. They gave Vail a second chance. From what I hear many will be thinking fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Also, all four sites have have a "Vail Sucks, "F&%$ Vail" thread. I don't remember any "Peaks Suck" or "F Peaks" threads when Peaks took over NE ski areas. Why is that so? What's the difference??? (That's a rhetorical question in case anyone is wondering.)

jaytrem

tedede;c-52399 wrote I'm simply asking folks to confine general comments about Vail to this thread and specific comments about a Vail property to the appropriate SJ thread. I'm not "yelling" at anyone and I don't "need" to do anything, as I've already shared my thoughts.

If you don't think I'm helping the situation, I'm curious what you think would help.

You're a Vail employee (or volunteer) and went on a public forum and reffered to your customers as a "chorus of the nattering nabobs of negativity". Some companies would fire you for that. I get your passion for Crotched and appreciation of your co-workers. But in my opinion, coming on here and trying to combat insults with more insults does not help the situation. I suspect if the "nabobs" are on this site, they're as passionate about sking as you are. Vail clearly causes strong feelings that happen to be mostly negative.

What would help is the question. I think cutting out the insult parts of the original message would have helped. Not sure what else, it's not easy to defend Vail. I figure they're just a company trying to make as much profit as they can, and that's exactly what they should be for their stockholders sake. It is what it is and currently it is a bad look.

yardsale

tedede;c-52375 wrote
jaytrem;c-52357 wroteI'd be shocked if the local managers have much leeway to do anything without permission from Colorado. They're probably as frustrated as their customers.
Why not speak to one directly and ask vs presuming?

Could you ask the CM gm to advocate directly to Broomfield for Beast and Ski-it on their pass refunds and report back on what the answer is. I don't think that would/should require a trip to Francestown. Thanks.

joshua_segal

yardsale;c-52404 wrote
tedede;c-52375 wrote
jaytrem;c-52357 wroteI'd be shocked if the local managers have much leeway to do anything without permission from Colorado. They're probably as frustrated as their customers.
Why not speak to one directly and ask vs presuming?
Could you ask the CM gm to advocate directly to Broomfield for Beast and Ski-it on their pass refunds and report back on what the answer is. I don't think that would/should require a trip to Francestown. Thanks.

If you have a problem with or at CM, it would be appropriate for you to contact CM for resolution. Season passes are a corporate issue over which CM has no control.

tedede

jaytrem;c-52402 wroteI get your passion for Crotched and appreciation of your co-workers. But in my opinion, coming on here and trying to combat insults with more insults does not help the situation.

Point taken, thank you.

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