NewEnglandSkier13
Flying Yankee at Atitash is down. From today's snow report:
"Unfortunately, the Yankee will be down for maintenance after we lost a seal on our hydraulic tension system. It's a big job, involving the removal and transport of 800-pound hydraulic ram. We are working as quickly and safely as possible to get the Flying Yankee back up and running. We promise to keep you all in the loop!"
Chuckstah
Vail stock closed at $224 today, down $152 from a 52 week high of $376 on November 5th. Yikes! How much lower can it go? Earnings report next week. That will likely determine if this is near the bottom, or if the freefall will continue. Glad I'm out.
conrad
If I were willing to break bad, this would be the time I would start averaging into Vail stock. That is a huge drop and it probably can't go that much lower because investment companies will be buying it for the discount alone. If the earnings report is bad it could go down another 10%, but then I would just buy even more stock and hold it.
Vail Resorts isn't going anywhere, even if they become less respected than Ikon. They'll stabilize one way or another in the next few years. Of course I don't have a crystal ball as to whether or not they'll stabilize as a cheaper ski experience where expectations are better managed (shorter ski seasons, shorter hours, less snowmaking, cookie cutter experience, but cheaper pass) or if they will try to up skiing game to compete with other places.
rickbolger
I've been watching it but still waiting a bit, recent death cross and it's blown through a couple of key support levels. Now flirting with 220, and with this whole Russia thing it's just too much uncertainty for me. On the other hand, you may be very right, if they beat the consensus on the 14th. Bought and sold this a couple times over the past 2-3 years
I agree 100% with Vail isn't going anywhere. The fact that people are willing to stand in those lines is proof positive.
Same thing tells me movie theaters are another opportunity, although I don't follow them to know if there are any bargains out there. Pre-pandemic, people were willing wait in long lines to sit in the dark next to strangers chomping on popcorn and sucking through straws, and pay for the privilege of doing it. they'll do it again.
conrad
start at 18:29
'This year we all hoped would be a little more normal and of course it's turned out to be anything but. So we have a lot to learn. And I think long term we see Paoli, I mean it adds value, it's close to an urban area, there's certainly passionate skiers and snowboarders that are there.'
rickbolger
conrad;c-54632 wrote
'This year we all hoped would be a little more normal and of course it's turned out to be anything but. So we have a lot to learn.
Note that Vail's Vice President of whatever is sitting at home, under a sign that says "
home."
What's he going to learn sitting at home?
Shouldn't he be out bumping chairs somewhere amidst the labor shortage? Like our SJ friends at Crotched? What would Pete Seibert do?
Why does he need a sign to tell him where he is?
conrad
Exactly. Just sees it as a asset that advances corporate goals. I.e. "adds value" to the portfolio and increases epic pass sales in an "urban area." Along with the obligatory compliment of the customer. "Certainly" there are passionate customers there, but it's obvious he hasn't met any of them yet.
Nothing about seeing Paoli Peaks as an individual unique ski area.
Beast Patroller
conrad;c-54654 wroteExactly. Just sees it as a asset that advances corporate goals. I.e. "adds value" to the portfolio and increases epic pass sales in an "urban area." Along with the obligatory compliment of the customer. "Certainly" there are passionate customers there, but it's obvious he hasn't met any of them yet.
Nothing about seeing Paoli Peaks as an individual unique ski area.
That's the problem with corporate executives. All they care about is making money for their shareholders and collecting their fat paychecks! Vail knows that most of their passholders don't have the drive to leave the areas they've skied for years and will "suck it up" and live with it. In the case of Paoli Peaks, the only other ski area in the whole state is 2.5 hrs. away so if you want to ski, you put up with Vail's epic failure.
New Hampshire's Vail mountains had similar issues but at least you could ski elsewhere. Many though will return because they've been skiing there for years and either have property there or can't bare to leave.
My wife & I bought our place which is 10 minutes from Mount Snow a few years ago. After last years "Epic Fail" where they didn't live up to their "assurance" to provide credit/refunds for COVID related events even though every other mega-pass companies did. Now this year's paid parking because they sold too many passes and knew that Mount Snow couldn't handle the influx of people who bought them my wife & I decided it was time to leave and went to Berkshire East. The only negative is the 40 minute drive (especially down Rte. 8A). Not sure where we'll ski next season but we are looking into maybe getting a Ikon Pass and skiing Stratton.
Seriously, Vail needs to re-think how to run their areas in the Mid-West & New England! They can't continue to run them like they do with their "destination" resorts out west.
lotsoskiing
Seriously, Vail needs to re-think how to run their areas in the Mid-West & New England! They can't continue to run them like they do with their "destination" resorts out west.[/quote]
Bingo. Apples and oranges (and pears). You cannot run eastern and MW areas the same way as the big places.
rickbolger
My Vail friends are all excited about the $20/ hr pay raise.
Like most things Vail, it sounds good, but...pivot delayed?
If they really, really know that their wages are too low, why aren't they enacting the change today?
Why wait? Why continue to plow ahead with a bad product?
Why continue to fail your employees?
After the passes are sold, I wonder if the employees will face all sorts of caveats and codicils, and a brick wall disguised as an employee app in order to get something that gets them on a mystical pathway to $20/hr.
shpride
I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere but so these raises hold true for the ski patrollers who are part of the union? I have seen in other industries where the unions are held to their contracts and left out special benefits.
tedede
shpride;c-54735 wroteI haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere but so these raises hold true for the ski patrollers who are part of the union? I have seen in other industries where the unions are held to their contracts and left out special benefits.
You'd need to see the contract. Some of the proponents for raising the Fed min wage are the unions as their wages are indexed off of that.
trackbiker
I skied Jack Frost this past Sunday and received a questionaire from Vail today regarding my visit. I gave them low numbers and they asked me why. Here's my response.
"A day after it snowed there were only 3 lifts out of 7 running from the bottom of the mountain. Lines were getting long. A liftie told me that they weren't expecting that many people. They weren't expecting that many people a day after it snowed? I always heard that ski areas would rather have snow in the people's back yards than at the slopes because that's what brought people out to the mountain. All of the other Pocono areas had all of their lifts running. I'll go to one of those areas next time.
I don't know why you do these surveys anyway. The bean counters don't care what the customer thinks, only what the bottom line and the stock price is. Which isn't too well lately at a 52 week low."
I didn't metioned that they had a large cafeteria section roped off which squeezed too many people into the small section that was open. (I didn't eat there just noticed it when in the lodge.)
The walkway from the parking lot wasn't plowed.
ciscokid
Track, Camelback ‘08 + ‘14 were fantastic (to me and the company I keep)
Skied JFBB back in the eighties
obienick
I was at Okemo today. They have signs pointing to the Evergreen Summit Express (old Jackson Gore Bubble moved over to main mountain to replace the old Green Ridge Triple) on the trails from skiers’ right side. But they only set up the queue from skiers’ left side. Literally no one was around, other than a lift manager and since I’m coming from skiers’ right I duck under the queue rope rather than skating 200 ft to the queue entry and back. I got threatened with my pass being revoked, that management considers it the same as ducking a rope for a closed trial.
I have NEVER EVER had that kind of experience at any other area. Really left a bad feeling for the day.
I tried to talk about that nonsense to the lift manager since the signs point one way and the queue is set up from the other direction. All he could say the queue design and the revocation policy is from above and nothing can be done.
What. The. F%#%.
Why is every decision made ass-backwards from non-skiers and without any thought put into it?!?
lotsoskiing
obienick;c-54760 wroteI was at Okemo today. They have signs pointing to the Evergreen Summit Express (old Jackson Gore Bubble moved over to main mountain to replace the old Green Ridge Triple) on the trails from skiers’ right side. But they only set up the queue from skiers’ left side. Literally no one was around, other than a lift manager and since I’m coming from skiers’ right I duck under the queue rope rather than skating 200 ft to the queue entry and back. I got threatened with my pass being revoked, that management considers it the same as ducking a rope for a closed trial.
I have NEVER EVER had that kind of experience at any other area. Really left a bad feeling for the day.
I tried to talk about that nonsense to the lift manager since the signs point one way and the queue is set up from the other direction. All he could say the queue design and the revocation policy is from above and nothing can be done.
What. The. F%#%.
Why is every decision made ass-backwards from non-skiers and without any thought put into it?!?
Corporate BS, plain and simply. Probably dreamt up by some consultant looking at org charts and other metrics and not actually out skiing.
LiftGuy
Think what you want, but it’s not ‘Corporate BS’. I complained to some friends from a ski area on Mt Hood once when I ducked a similar rope and was reprimanded. Their answer was “A rope is a rope.” They are there for a reason.
Now let’s hear from a small area that says “Ropes don’t matter.”
NewEnglandSkier13
LiftGuy;c-54774 wroteThink what you want, but it’s not ‘Corporate BS’. I complained to some friends from a ski area on Mt Hood once when I ducked a similar rope and was reprimanded. Their answer was “A rope is a rope.” They are there for a reason.
Now let’s hear from a small area that says “Ropes don’t matter.”
If there isn't a line, no one would even think to tell at you for ducking under a rope into a queue line at most ski areas. If there is a line, you might get yelled at and sent to the back if you're cutting people off, but you wouldn't be threatened about losing your pass, unless you did it repeatedly.
DrJeff
Does it always make sense? Nope
Could things be set up in a different way at times? Yes, well maybe if there arent't any other factors like adequete snow depth to set the retention poles in that a customer may not be aware of
Is it a pain in the butt for the staff when a bunch of people start ducking under queue lane ropes, especially on a warm day, and eventually one of them pulls out and need to be reset? Yes, especially as someone who over the years has set miles of safety b-netting around race courses and start/finish area netting for crowd management. Sometimes there isn't enough base to set the retention poles as deeply into the snow as they optimally would be, and then the more they get manipulated, the greater the chance of them coming out of the snowpack/ground and needing further attention
rickbolger
I understand what your saying, although I don't anymore -- last time tried to duck under a few years ago, got tangled up, lift manager helped me and quietly said we prefer you go around, we have these here for a reason. So lesson learned.
What I have seen -- at areas large and small -- is when you have a right & left approach but entry only on one side, they will leave a gap in the ropes to ski in when skiers are scarce, and close it up as necessary.
