Vail Sucks 2022-2023

lotsoskiing

shpride;c-65191 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-65190 wroteWell, it seems appropriate for this thread to make at least a temporary reappearance with Attitash's lastest announcement. Yet again this year, there will be no summer operations. This time there's no lift project to use as an excuse. They are also permanently closing their zipline and mountain coaster. I'm getting the feeling that summer operations are done for good.

https://www.powder.com/trending-news/attitash-cancels-summer-operations?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1airSZeK9dvTRHv5eZAnbjjqnW02auD42TrqxNMvG56A3rRPepk787ovY_aem_AYJZGfSIFNuiZYNi4U4Iq6NhQZCYTncO1P7-mwgB8y-zKVr1a9nFOOwx_2EOhX_qci44WPbQ8lZ2FPBBIapzRsMk
I agree that summer ops are probably done. Other than the mountain coaster and zip lines there really wasn’t much else worth going to. Cranmore’s summer ops are so good it seems silly for Attitash to even try and compete without the zip line and mountain coaster.

Where's the coaster going? I am sure someone would want it. I rode the one at Copper...it's pretty fun though, like everything, overpriced

NewEnglandSkier13

shpride;c-65191 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-65190 wroteWell, it seems appropriate for this thread to make at least a temporary reappearance with Attitash's lastest announcement. Yet again this year, there will be no summer operations. This time there's no lift project to use as an excuse. They are also permanently closing their zipline and mountain coaster. I'm getting the feeling that summer operations are done for good.

https://www.powder.com/trending-news/attitash-cancels-summer-operations?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1airSZeK9dvTRHv5eZAnbjjqnW02auD42TrqxNMvG56A3rRPepk787ovY_aem_AYJZGfSIFNuiZYNi4U4Iq6NhQZCYTncO1P7-mwgB8y-zKVr1a9nFOOwx_2EOhX_qci44WPbQ8lZ2FPBBIapzRsMk
I agree that summer ops are probably done. Other than the mountain coaster and zip lines there really wasn’t much else worth going to. Cranmore’s summer ops are so good it seems silly for Attitash to even try and compete without the zip line and mountain coaster.

They had a pretty extensive network of downhill mountain bike trails, but Vail shut those down quickly.

rickbolger

OK there's got to be more to the story here, Okemo runs a mountain coaster, bike park, and the "haulback challenge course" (people pay money to climb trees or something) and other Vail resorts operate the same sort of stuff. I used to see oodles of people at Attitash in the summer, albeit mostly on holiday weekends. I can't believe they're running scared of Cranmore, there's plenty of people in the valley year-round. If the valley can support a dozen places selling $8 cups of coffee and seven breweries, it can certainly support two mountain coasters. What's really the deal?

Dare I ask the question: Are winter operations next?

tedede

Cranmore is right off the downtown strip and is a little more convenient.
"Albeit mostly on holiday weekends" of which there are 3 in the summer and 1 in the fall.
Vail's min wage is now $20+ an hour so they need guaranteed traffic to be profitable.

Winter operations? Nope. AFAIK Vail has never shuttered a resort.

obienick

WMV is actually busier in the summer than winter. They stopped summer stuff with Covid. Then it was “we gotta fix things up again”. Then it was “we have construction taking up too much space.” Now it’s no excuse so they just pull out what remains.

At this point I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and realized when looking at it in April that it was too costly to get the coaster back into shape.

Vail’s been taking out zip lines nationwide due to increased liability following the Stowe incident.

Vail seems to never resell assets they take out. They always scrap. Which is strange as there was still a lot of life left in the Mansfield Double at Stowe, Black Ridge Triple at Okemo, Sunbrook Quad at Mt. Snow, and the Summit Triple from Attitash. My bet the coaster too is scrapped.

DrJeff

I wouldn't be shocked at all if one of the reason why many, older lifts (with some life left in them) are getting scraped vs recycled, has to do with the lift 3 main lift manufacturers in this country (Leitner/Poma, Doppelmayr and Sky Trac), all being very busy with much more profitable and often easier/more predictable new installations, than with re-installs.

Sure Dopp is doing some re-installations for Boyne (Guessing though with how much $$ Boyne is spending year in and year out for many years now and likely many more to come that Dopp will take those reinstalltions (which seem to basically be brand new drive systems and old steel towers and terminals (close to a new installation in reality) - to keep the Kirchner family behind Boyne very happy!)

Much easier and predictable when you're installing a lift that was designed and engineered for that specific location to get things right from day 1, than when you're trying to work with components from a different enginnering plan and make it work (text book example is the Black Quad at Magic)

newpylong

A lot of life left is relative. If I were Vail there is not a shot I would reinstall any of those lifts.

JimK

Trailsboss on AZ posted a link to a good SAM story on re-purposing chairlifts. There are some challenges that make it impractical in many instances.

tedede

Vail has the biggest pockets in the event of used lift failure. Also, if your business model is always new, why support competitors that utilize used lifts by increasing the used lift supply.

ski_it

Isn’t that coaster older than dirt?

NewEnglandSkier13

ski_it;c-65225 wroteIsn’t that coaster older than dirt?

It was installed in 2011.

rickbolger

tedede;c-65212 wrotewhy support competitors that utilize used lifts by increasing the used lift supply.

Something about boats, rising tides, etc. but seriously, is Vail really competing against mom & pop areas? Hard to imagine planning meetings "how can we finally crush Granite Gorge" or whatever. They probably realize better overall $$ by scrapping.

I'd venture a guess that >95% of the people on this forum have an indirect financial interest in Vail Resorts Inc. and, if we choose to criticize Vail's methodology, we have only ourselves to blame. Indirectly.

lotsoskiing

rickbolger;c-65230 wrote
tedede;c-65212 wrotewhy support competitors that utilize used lifts by increasing the used lift supply.

Something about boats, rising tides, etc. but seriously, is Vail really competing against mom & pop areas? Hard to imagine planning meetings "how can we finally crush Granite Gorge" or whatever. They probably realize better overall $$ by scrapping.

I'd venture a guess that >95% of the people on this forum have an indirect financial interest in Vail Resorts Inc. and, if we choose to criticize Vail's methodology, we have only ourselves to blame. Indirectly.

Yay, I am in the <5% !!!!!

rickbolger

lotsoskiing;c-65231 wrote Yay, I am in the <5% !!!!!

You sure about that? Any IRAs, 401k? Pension plan?

lotsoskiing

rickbolger;c-65235 wrote
lotsoskiing;c-65231 wrote Yay, I am in the <5% !!!!!
You sure about that? Any IRAs, 401k? Pension plan?

Sure but not a cent to Vail, in portfolios or in season pass.

Beast Patroller

Currently I have no interest in Vail. Though, in a year or so I will be giving them a second chance buying an Epic pass but skiing midweek only! My days of weekends at major ski resorts are done!

Also, nothing in my investment portfolios either.

rickbolger

If you have any equity funds you may want to look at their full holdings -- various Fidelity, Vanguard, Principal, Blackrock, iShares funds are among the largest shareholders.

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