ADKskier
What's the worst run mountain you have ever visited?
For me, it had to have been Bellearye in 2005. It was poorly maintained had antiquated lifts and little budget for snowmaking. At the time the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation ran the mountain. I am glad it is under the ORDA umbrella now.
NewEnglandSkier13
Is this another Vail thread? ;) :D
NewEnglandSkier13
To be honest, I'm not sure how great of a thread this is. With many people involved in mountain ops on this forum, I feel like it has a good chance of getting personal.
ADKskier
NewEnglandSkier13;c-57456 wroteTo be honest, I'm not sure how great of a thread this is. With many people involved in mountain ops on this forum, I feel like it has a good chance of getting personal.
True but I meant my example. Bellearye has come a long way in 17 years. I would understand if no one responds :D
ADKskier
All three of NYS mountains were once awful. Gore has come a long way. Whiteface I feel needs lots of terrain and trail work.
joshua_segal
This is a difficult thread because in many cases what the consumer perceives as bad management is really undercapitalization.
lotsoskiing
Oak Mt, NY.
Previous owners made much-needed investments, for sure, but then ran it into the ground. Town tried to run it, then shuttered it. Current owners (O'Brien family) have made it a thriving business. Wonderful family area, expanding snowmaking, excellent grooming, and other amenities every year, and an excellent restaurant. Weddings, mt. biking, disc golf in summer. 180-degree turn for the place, and it provides important employment and revenue for an area that needs it.
NewEnglandSkier13
I think this new thread title is much better.
I would add Mount Abram. Ten years ago it was looking pretty rundown with lots of lift breakdowns and minimal snowmaking. Now they have invested in the lifts, vastly improved snowmaking and grooming, and the summer activities are taking off.
Big Squaw also fits this category. The way it used to be run was not sustainable. The non-profit has found its niche operating the lower mountain. They have nice facilities in the lodge, modern snowmaking, outstanding grooming, a new beginner area with a carpet, expanded xc & snowshoe terrain, and they're usually somewhat busy. However, it remains to be seen what happens with the potential new ownership.
ADKskier
lotsoskiing;c-57462 wroteOak Mt, NY.
Previous owners made much-needed investments, for sure, but then ran it into the ground. Town tried to run it, then shuttered it. Current owners (O'Brien family) have made it a thriving business. Wonderful family area, expanding snowmaking, excellent grooming, and other amenities every year, and an excellent restaurant. Weddings, mt. biking, disc golf in summer. 180-degree turn for the place, and it provides important employment and revenue for an area that needs it.
I have skied every Adirondack park ski area except Oak mountain. While I don't ski anymore these days. It would be a good trip for my son!
obienick
I would add Greek Peak, NY to the list
Prior ownership ran the place into the ground with only investments to a summer adventure center and a hotel and conference center.
The place was bought by two local skiers and there has been continuous on-mountain improvements. Significant expansion to pumping capacity for snowmaking… Additional snowmaking terrain … removal and replacement of antiquated snowmaking “laterals” that would use hoses from the snowmaking line to connect to the lateral pipes which shot over to neighboring trails … Replacement of the slowest double in existence with a new Doppelmayr FG quad … Upgrades to Chair 5 triple … Replacement this year of the Chair 3 bunny double to a used triple … Cutting of glades … Cutting of several natural snow very narrow trails … Addition of a bike park … Addition of a wedding venue… Significant improvements to the lodge
DrJeff
West Mountain, NY
You could certainly argue that some of it can tie directly into Joshua's point about under capitalization, however what the Montgomery Family has done with how they operate that mountain in the now decade since they bought West has truly been game changing and has that mountain thriving now
conrad
Jay Peak - no explanation needed
lotsoskiing
obienick;c-57469 wroteI would add Greek Peak, NY to the list
Prior ownership ran the place into the ground with only investments to a summer adventure center and a hotel and conference center.
The place was bought by two local skiers and there has been continuous on-mountain improvements. Significant expansion to pumping capacity for snowmaking… Additional snowmaking terrain … removal and replacement of antiquated snowmaking “laterals” that would use hoses from the snowmaking line to connect to the lateral pipes which shot over to neighboring trails … Replacement of the slowest double in existence with a new Doppelmayr FG quad … Upgrades to Chair 5 triple … Replacement this year of the Chair 3 bunny double to a used triple … Cutting of glades … Cutting of several natural snow very narrow trails … Addition of a bike park … Addition of a wedding venue… Significant improvements to the lodge
Sad they sold Toggenburg to buyers that then closed it down but it's a business...
Good to see GP is doing well- I know it had been in rough shape for a while
ADKskier
lotsoskiing;c-57473 wroteobienick;c-57469 wroteI would add Greek Peak, NY to the list
Prior ownership ran the place into the ground with only investments to a summer adventure center and a hotel and conference center.
The place was bought by two local skiers and there has been continuous on-mountain improvements. Significant expansion to pumping capacity for snowmaking… Additional snowmaking terrain … removal and replacement of antiquated snowmaking “laterals” that would use hoses from the snowmaking line to connect to the lateral pipes which shot over to neighboring trails … Replacement of the slowest double in existence with a new Doppelmayr FG quad … Upgrades to Chair 5 triple … Replacement this year of the Chair 3 bunny double to a used triple … Cutting of glades … Cutting of several natural snow very narrow trails … Addition of a bike park … Addition of a wedding venue… Significant improvements to the lodge
Sad they sold Toggenburg to buyers that then closed it down but it's a business...
Good to see GP is doing well- I know it had been in rough shape for a while
The Whole Toggenburg debacle is awful. The owners of Greek peak sold him (Peter Harris) the mountain under the impression he would keep it open. He also owns Labrador and Song Mountains. The Syracuse metro and surrounding area has a population of 700,000. So I think it could have been sustainable. Which is why Harris recently put Toggenburg up for sale for double the amount he paid for it. However... I understand that owning three ski areas within 10 minutes of each other may be a bit of self-competition.
lotsoskiing
ADKskier;c-57474 wrotelotsoskiing;c-57473 wroteobienick;c-57469 wroteI would add Greek Peak, NY to the list
Prior ownership ran the place into the ground with only investments to a summer adventure center and a hotel and conference center.
The place was bought by two local skiers and there has been continuous on-mountain improvements. Significant expansion to pumping capacity for snowmaking… Additional snowmaking terrain … removal and replacement of antiquated snowmaking “laterals” that would use hoses from the snowmaking line to connect to the lateral pipes which shot over to neighboring trails … Replacement of the slowest double in existence with a new Doppelmayr FG quad … Upgrades to Chair 5 triple … Replacement this year of the Chair 3 bunny double to a used triple … Cutting of glades … Cutting of several natural snow very narrow trails … Addition of a bike park … Addition of a wedding venue… Significant improvements to the lodge
Sad they sold Toggenburg to buyers that then closed it down but it's a business...
Good to see GP is doing well- I know it had been in rough shape for a while
The Whole Toggenburg debacle is awful. The owners of Greek peak sold him (Peter Harris) the mountain under the impression he would keep it open. He also owns Labrador and Song Mountains. The Syracuse metro and surrounding area has a population of 700,000. So I think it could have been sustainable. Which is why Harris recently put Toggenburg up for sale for double the amount he paid for it. However... I understand that owning three ski areas within 10 minutes of each other may be a bit of self-competition.
As I understand it as well. And the Togg sale has a clause that it can't be run as a ski area. Very sad
obienick
Much like Jiminy and Brodie
Or Mt Snow and Haystack
I’m not sure how a business buying a competitor, and selling it with a deed restriction does not fall under anti-trust behavior.
lotsoskiing
ADKskier;c-57468 wrotelotsoskiing;c-57462 wroteOak Mt, NY.
Previous owners made much-needed investments, for sure, but then ran it into the ground. Town tried to run it, then shuttered it. Current owners (O'Brien family) have made it a thriving business. Wonderful family area, expanding snowmaking, excellent grooming, and other amenities every year, and an excellent restaurant. Weddings, mt. biking, disc golf in summer. 180-degree turn for the place, and it provides important employment and revenue for an area that needs it.
I have skied every Adirondack park ski area except Oak mountain. While I don't ski anymore these days. It would be a good trip for my son!
Oak is worth it, especially with a family. Nothing too steep, but a couple of good drops, and the most sustained steep (Oak Mt Run) now has snowmaking. Faces south, so a sunny frigid ADK day is not so frigid. T-bar may run this year. Main chair is not fast, but it is rarely more than 2-3 chair wait, so you get a lot of skiing in. Overall vibe is friendly, non-hustle. All trails lead to the base so no one gets lost... Kunjamuck is the best cruiser- fun rolls, and if there is enough snow, the little glades are fun. Also tubing and snowshoeing (on MTB trails) so plenty to do.
https://oakmountainski.com/mountain/the-mountain/webcam
rickbolger
I enjoyed Belleayre back in those days, they opened early and kept the lifts running well into April. Summit lift was slow but had a mid station that was good for less skillful skiers, which I always seemed to have a bunch of neighborhood kids with me at that time. And it was less crowded then. And they had ticket discounts "wear red white & blue and ski for $35" sort of thing.
But I understand your point of view on that.
One that I personally experienced going from the outhouse (end of the ASC era) to the penthouse (well, not quite but better) and then back down again is Attitash.
Seems to me Ragged NH and Mountain Creek NJ might have to fight it out for best example of "once poorly managed that are now thriving"
Is Magic thriving? Not sure, but they've come a long, long way from the days of the dog poop lingering on the deck.
slatham
I agree with Magic. They have come a long long way, even if the journey is not over by any means.
ADKskier
rickbolger;c-57479 wroteI enjoyed Belleayre back in those days, they opened early and kept the lifts running well into April. Summit lift was slow but had a mid station that was good for less skillful skiers, which I always seemed to have a bunch of neighborhood kids with me at that time. And it was less crowded then. And they had ticket discounts "wear red white & blue and ski for $35" sort of thing.
But I understand your point of view on that.
One that I personally experienced going from the outhouse (end of the ASC era) to the penthouse (well, not quite but better) and then back down again is Attitash.
Seems to me Ragged NH and Mountain Creek NJ might have to fight it out for best example of "once poorly managed that are now thriving"
Is Magic thriving? Not sure, but they've come a long, long way from the days of the dog poop lingering on the deck.
I see your point of view here, Gore had that same vibe and CHEAP! I remember riding the Old Red Gondola a 20-minute ride and cramped 4 seater cabins.
