Indy Pass gets bought!

NewEnglandSkier13

ceo;c-59865 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-59859 wrote Read this quote from one of the emails to passholders: "Entabeni is privileged to keep Indy Pass 100% independent, and we remain steadfastly committed to the original mission - supporting independent resorts and providing incredible value for skiers and riders."

At least the first part of that is blatantly false. Even if they keep the name, they shouldn't go on claiming that only independent ski resorts are on the pass.
They don't actually claim that. "100% independent" means the Indy Pass itself is independent, not that 100% of its member resorts are. And having Jay as a flagship resort that draws lots of people to get the pass is absolutely in keeping with a mission of "supporting independent resorts and providing incredible value for skiers and riders".

And what defines "independent?" If you mean local private ownership, better kick Cannon and Saddleback off. If you mean ownership of only that resort, then kick off Berkshire East and Catamount.

I would agree that places like Saddleback and Cannon don't qualify. And that email reads like they are referring to the areas on the pass. If they were referring to themselves as a company, why would they use a percentage?

ceo

It's called a rhetorical device. :-). The Epic Pass is owned by Vail and the Ikon Pass by Alterra, even if not all of the resorts on them are owned by those companies. The Indy Pass is, like they say, independent.

Peter

What if told you Southwest Airlines now flies mostly outside the Southwest?

NewEnglandSkier13

Peter;c-59875 wroteWhat if told you Southwest Airlines now flies mostly outside the Southwest?

But they don't market themselves to sound like they only fly in the Southwest.

NewEnglandSkier13

This is pulled straight from their website and is a blatantly false statement:

trackbiker

Just because they have a common owner doesn't mean that aren't independently operated.
I agree with ceo's comment above. "not owned by a large operator that issues its own multi-resort pass" is a fine definition for these purposes.
I have no problem with Berkshire East and Catamount joining the Indy Pass to compete with Epic and Ikon.
I don't think a pass like you envision would sell very well or help the smaller independents that are on the Indy Pass any better. They would likely do worse because not as many people would buy your pass and less people would visit their areas.

naturalsnow

Also, the way the Indy Pass works, you can pick and choose which of the areas you want to support. So if someone feels that Jay or Waterville are not sufficiently "Indy," you can avoid skiing there and stick to the smaller places. I believe the revenue from each person's pass (after a haircut for administrative fees) goes only to the ski areas that person actually skis at rather than being shared among all of them.

tedede

The ski areas get a fixed amount per passholder visit. No visit, no $$ to that area.

NewEnglandSkier13

trackbiker;c-59878 wroteJust because they have a common owner doesn't mean that aren't independently operated.
I agree with ceo's comment above. "not owned by a large operator that issues its own multi-resort pass" is a fine definition for these purposes.
I have no problem with Berkshire East and Catamount joining the Indy Pass to compete with Epic and Ikon.
I don't think a pass like you envision would sell very well or help the smaller independents that are on the Indy Pass any better. They would likely do worse because not as many people would buy your pass and less people would visit their areas.

But they do. A Jay Peak pass is also valid at all other Pacific Group Resorts.

NewEnglandSkier13

naturalsnow;c-59879 wroteAlso, the way the Indy Pass works, you can pick and choose which of the areas you want to support. So if someone feels that Jay or Waterville are not sufficiently "Indy," you can avoid skiing there and stick to the smaller places. I believe the revenue from each person's pass (after a haircut for administrative fees) goes only to the ski areas that person actually skis at rather than being shared among all of them.

That's not the point. The point is that they continue to market all ski areas on the pass as independent when they aren't. Jay Peak is no more independent than Killington.

Chuckstah

Killington is iconic. Jay is Indy. It's a brand name. Nothing more.

NewEnglandSkier13

Chuckstah;c-59883 wroteKillington is iconic. Jay is Indy. It's a brand name. Nothing more.

Well, that's too bad that it's been reduced to nothing more than a brand name. Initially the pass and brand actually stood for something.

skelley19

By your logic they should probably kick Big Rock off the pass as well since it is neither Big nor a Rock.

I kid but I think everybody that invests in the Indy Pass is very glad that Jay Peak stayed on it. It's helping to sell passes and get visits and revenue to these smaller areas. The main reason I bought my pass is because Saddleback and Jay are on it and I know I'll get my money's worth from those 4 visits. I never would have considered going to places like S6, B.East or Catamount if there were not on this pass. Its fine if you want to argue semantics but I am pretty sure that everybody involved with the pass on all ends is happy that Jay is on the pass.

NewEnglandSkier13

skelley19;c-59890 wrote I kid but I think everybody that invests in the Indy Pass is very glad that Jay Peak stayed on it. It's helping to sell passes and get visits and revenue to these smaller areas. The main reason I bought my pass is because Saddleback and Jay are on it and I know I'll get my money's worth from those 4 visits. I never would have considered going to places like S6, B.East or Catamount if there were not on this pass. Its fine if you want to argue semantics but I am pretty sure that everybody involved with the pass on all ends is happy that Jay is on the pass.

Don't you find it ironic that two of most popular places on the pass are corporate?

skelley19

NewEnglandSkier13;c-59893 wrote
skelley19;c-59890 wrote I kid but I think everybody that invests in the Indy Pass is very glad that Jay Peak stayed on it. It's helping to sell passes and get visits and revenue to these smaller areas. The main reason I bought my pass is because Saddleback and Jay are on it and I know I'll get my money's worth from those 4 visits. I never would have considered going to places like S6, B.East or Catamount if there were not on this pass. Its fine if you want to argue semantics but I am pretty sure that everybody involved with the pass on all ends is happy that Jay is on the pass.
Don't you find it ironic that two of most popular places on the pass are corporate?

No, I just think of all of the amazing tree skiing days I have had at both places. I'm just glad to see SB back from the dead with an owner that is investing lots of money to make it a far better skiing experience than it was with the old lifts. I would love to see some similar investments at Jay over time but I am just glad they are out of the woods after the scandal and they didn't get bought by Vail....I hate what has happened to Wildcat is my main issue with them.

hiemsman

@NewEnglandSkier13 Do you have a suggestion for a competitive alternative to the Ikon and Epic passes that also provides an easy revenue stream for independent/unaffiliated resorts AND meets your stringent requirements of the branding matching the content therein?

LiftGuy

hiemsman;c-59903 wrote@NewEnglandSkier13 Do you have a suggestion for a competitive alternative to the Ikon and Epic passes that also provides an easy revenue stream for independent/unaffiliated resorts AND meets your stringent requirements of the branding matching the content therein?

@NewEnglandSkier13... Or an alternative name that would suit you?

NewEnglandSkier13

hiemsman;c-59903 wrote@NewEnglandSkier13 Do you have a suggestion for a competitive alternative to the Ikon and Epic passes that also provides an easy revenue stream for independent/unaffiliated resorts AND meets your stringent requirements of the branding matching the content therein?

Let's see, in an ideal world where any independent resort would want to be on the pass, you could replace Jay with Burke, Owl's Head, and/or Sutton and Saddleback could be replaced with Mount Abram and/or Big Squaw.

skelley19

I just got home from a great first visit to Berkshire East. What a fun spot that I never would have gotten to if it wasn't for Indy. Will throw up a Trip Report when I get a chance but still lots of fresh snow all over that mountain and I did not need to look hard to find it.

JimK

Here's a recent article a friend and I wrote about Sundance, UT. It's so independent it's not on the Indy Pass, but maybe someday?
https://www.skitalk.com/ams/sundance-mountain-resort-a-study-in-contrasts.260/

« Previous Page Next Page »