Cannon's Tram to Close Before Replacement Ready

z1000307470

joshua_segal;c-70283 wroteIn my capacity as moderator, I received a complaint about powderstud's posting for being "overtly political". One could argue the points that tariffs will increase prices of lifts. One could argue that the governor's owning a ski area, might have political impact on the ski industry. Based on those points the posting may be interpreted as both political and relevant to the topic.

I'm tempted to delete the posting, but I would prefer if powderstud did some editing to focus the posting on the impact on skiing rather than the politics.

Here is a non-complaint: I have no problems with the discussions in this thread. I am glad the discussion continues.

powderstud

I was at Cannon today to say farewell to the tram with one of my ski buddies. The place was mobbed and every single tram was full going up around mid-day (with the average age of tram passengers being solidly in the mid-70s). While I was there, I spoke with a long-term tram employee to find out why the tram is being retired earlier than seemed to be the plan a year ago. He told me that the company that built the tram doesn't exist anymore (which was true a year ago), so getting replacement parts has become a lot more difficult. He said with the passage of time, it's also gotten considerably more expensive to get all the parts needed because they need to be custom-made at this point since the tram company went out of business, that the cost of replacement parts has "skyrocketed," and given the volume of replacement parts needed, it no longer makes sense economically to keep the tram running. He said Cannon has already started work on the replacement tram, and they expect work on it will be underway "soon."

I believe that everything he said confirmed the narrative I've previously laid out in this thread: the illegal tariffs have blown up the cost of keeping the tram running. I believe that given the deteriorating state of the national and local economy, the deteriorating state of NH's state finances, and given that the economic consequence of the savage budget cuts in the Big Beautiful Bill to partially pay for the enormous tax cuts for billionaires that was passed earlier this year have yet to "hit," and when they do those cuts will blow up every state's finances, the tram replacement is toast. I don't believe it will ever happen given the escalating costs of the entire endeavor, now driven well past the $30+ million quote from Leitner which was pre-tariffs and at a time when long-term interest rates were considerably lower than they are now (or where they seem to be headed).

There were work crews at Cannon testing the tram towers. It will be interesting to see what the consulting firm hired to determine the viability of re-using the existing towers and footings ends up reporting back to the State. It seems hard for me to imagine that 45+ year old towers and concrete are going to be good to go for another 40+ years. But I'm not an engineer or really know anything about the structural integrity of long-standing metal towers and concrete footings.

conrad

If anyone is able to get photos of the tram running in its final week, I would love to share them on Remontees-Mecaniques. We have a Remontees-Mecaniques report from the winter, but it would be nice to see it in the Fall too.
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tph80-cannon-tram-ii-agudio-1019.html

powderstud

It's the final week of the 1980 Cannon Tram's operations. 45 years.

abubob

I can’t remember how to post video but here’s a few stills.

abubob

Here ya go:

timberleaf

From the article linked in the NH Resorts Improvements thread:

Cannon Mountain has invested in a wide range of lodge upgrades to improve guest comfort and aesthetics. Projects include new roofing on the Notchview and Brookside lodges, fresh paint on the Peabody, Notchview, and Brookside buildings, updated paint on the Peabody lift terminal, as well as new lighting, flooring, stair grips, and fans in the Peabody Lodge. Guests will also notice the addition of new digital signage in Peabody, further enhancing the overall experience.

Their list of "upgrades" is downright depressing. New roofing is an upgrade? I suppose you can argue that not getting wet while indoors will improve the guest experience.

Fresh paint? Folks will do well to plan ahead for traffic on route 93 as the masses head north to experience this unprecedented luxury.

Burnt lightbulbs are being replaced! No expense spared here, folks.

And who needs health insurance with these new stair grips? The orthopedic doctors at Speare are going to feel like Maytag repairmen.

Don't forget the fans. Come for the skiing, stay for the air circulation.

Sigh. What does it say about a place when basic, first world fixtures are described as "upgrades"?

Earlier in this thread I called out a number of deferred maintenance deficiencies at Cannon - roofing, paint, HVAC, and stair treads among them. And now, totally coincidentally, these same things make up the bulk of their list of "lodge upgrades".

Be more pathetic. You can't.

But there was one thing from my list that didn't make the press release... somebody want to check on whether the bones of the magic carpet are still there? I'm guessing no

New magic carpet? $50K.
Trip to the Franconia Transfer Station? Priceless.

riverc0il

It is strange that they decided to use the word "invested" when referring to routine maintenance. Stair grips are not investments. Building new stairs designed for modern ski boots would be an investment (looking at you, Notchview Lodge).

They probably believe the new digital signage will dupe guests into thinking that the place is an actual modern ski area. "Look, they have digital signs now, wow!"

It's all lipstick on a pig. Throwback and old school should never mean falling apart and run down. When routine maintenance becomes significant investment and upgrades, something has gone seriously wrong.

ceo

In fairness, they had to come up with something resembling "upgrades" for the article. Note that they aren't touting these things on their website.

obienick

There's been a long trend of ski areas touting normal maintenance as capital upgrades in seasons where nothing big is invested. This isn't anything new. But it honestly sounds like important improvements to make.

ski_it

PSA. FLASH SALE: We took restrictions off our 3 Pack this weekend! What does that mean? No blackouts. Transferable. $66 per ticket. These limited release packs are available for purchase online only Nov. 8-11. Why? Because we like ya.
https://estore.cannonmt.com/products/3pack-flash-sale?_gl=1*1yplu14*_gcl_au*MjY0MzI2NzYuMTc2MjYyNzgxOQ..*_ga*Nzc4Njc1ODkuMTc2MjYyNzgyMg..*_ga_ESNL23NGHK*czE3NjI2Mjc4MjIkbzEkZzEkdDE3NjI2Mjg3NjMkajYwJGwwJGgw

Chuckstah

Here’s a link to the 1/12 Cannon mountain capital project meeting. It discusses the timeline on the new tram bid process. They are hoping to get it out to bid in May. This link was posted to AZone by Jace Wirth, Cannon/ Franconia notch state Park GM. It starts talking about Cannon around the 12 minute mark.

riverc0il

Tram specific discussion at 18 minutes.

ciscokid

https://www.enr.com/articles/62500-new-hampshire-ski-area-on-track-to-build-north-americas-first-third-gen-tramway

justkeepmovingne

I am mildly curious about how broadly New Hampshire actually searched for manufacturers - competition drives costs down, generally. Sure, there’s not a lot of competition left who have experience in the US market - Bell Engineering is the only other that comes to mind immediately - but there are certainly others worldwide.

ceo

justkeepmovingne
There are precisely two companies who build these things and have any presence in North America: Doppelmayr and Poma. I’ve never even heard of Bell Engineering (and I’m a pretty dedicated lift nerd). There’s also MND, but I think they’ve built only one major lift in the US (White Peaks at Waterville).

justkeepmovingne

ceo Bell Engineering did the Sandia Peak Aerial Tramway in Albuquerque - most recent major work done was a full cab replacement in 2016. They’re also working on rebuilding a gondola in Texas - or I’m almost certain I read somewhere a few weeks ago that they are.

Edit: Nope, you’re definitely right - I had thought they were still around - and they are, but they’re not in the ski lift business anymore. They did have a presence in the Americas though - Sandia Peak, El Paso, Banff, Vail to name a few places. The cab replacement completed in 2016 was done by CWA which is just another Dopp subsidiary– I did myself in by skimming rather than reading carefully.

Here’s an old ad that has a little bit of info on them.

ILOVE2SKI

Wow cool find with the old ad!

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