ReNewSnow

ADKskierADKskier
in Operations/Management Posts: 986
Anyone ever hear anything on how these snow pods did this year? I can’t find the original thread.

Thanks

~Rich~
~Rich~

Comments

  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    ADKskier wrote: »
    Anyone ever hear anything on how these snow pods did this year? I can’t find the original thread.

    Thanks

    ~Rich~

    I'm part of the ReNew Snow team. Their prototype test pod on Saddleback outperformed their expectations. Some video of their tests can be found at https://www.renewsnow.ski/projects-6

    Anyone who has ever done product development knows that it is a big, extensive and expensive process. The team is wrestling with that and looking to raise funds to take their snow pod to the next level. In the meantime, they continue to analyze water flows and proceed with some of the low-cost things that need to be done.
  • ADKskierADKskier
    Posts: 986
    That's awesome, I am very excited you guys did well. I hear that there are a couple other resorts interested.
    ~Rich~
  • newpylongnewpylong
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,512
    From what I was told by the snowmakers it kept running out of water and couldn't hold pressure making more of a mess than useful snow.

    It's a novel idea but the problem comes with scaling.

    Running water exists for sure but seldom is it in close enough proximity to widespread snowmaking terrain. Then you need to install pumps on the hill to create the desired pressures. This may save some coin if someone happens to have a couple of high traffic areas close enough to an on hill water source (exactly like Green Weaver) but once you begin to scale it up the ROI balance will favor using the centralized water distribution system.
  • tededetedede
    Posts: 730
    newpylong wrote: »
    Running water exists for sure but seldom is it in close enough proximity to widespread snowmaking terrain. Then you need to install pumps on the hill to create the desired pressures. This may save some coin if someone happens to have a couple of high traffic areas close enough to an on hill water source (exactly like Green Weaver) but once you begin to scale it up the ROI balance will favor using the centralized water distribution system.

    ^^^^ This exactly. I'm surprised they made it to the prototype point.

    Not to mention that the placement of each and every station requires custom analysis, has different placement challenges, and may often be situated in areas where electricity and heavy equipment can't easily reach.

    Slap a "green" label on it and maybe it'll be a loss leader for organizations looking to raise their ESG scores.

    Of course like most anything in the ski business, the easiest way to make a million is to start with two.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    newpylong wrote: »
    From what I was told by the snowmakers it kept running out of water and couldn't hold pressure making more of a mess than useful snow.

    ...

    I would be curious from whom you got this information.

    I checked with Peter Stein, President and Chief Scientist of ReNew Snow. He tells me, "We never ran out of water (at the test site). During all of the fall we would have been able to take a minimum of 40 gpm out of the stream while it was cold enough to make snow."

    Further he said, "And it always made great snow when we ran it."

  • newpylongnewpylong
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,512
    Sounds like you're not getting a clear picture/accurate assessment.
  • TomWhiteTomWhite
    Posts: 2,598
    I meet Peter a couple of summers ago. This was pre-prototype. I too questioned the "scale issue". Could they find sufficient subsurface water near where guns would run? If they can, I will be positive about the future of the system.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    newpylong wrote: »
    Sounds like you're not getting a clear picture/accurate assessment.

    It seems as though you're doubling down on an opinion based on hearsay from someone who is unlikely to have correct information. A first name is all I need for me to determine the credibility of your source.
    TomWhite wrote: »
    I met Peter a couple of summers ago. This was pre-prototype. I too questioned the "scale issue". Could they find sufficient subsurface water near where guns would run? If they can, I will be positive about the future of the system.
    This is a reasonable statement. ReNew Snow only made a little snow, but they made a lot of water flow measurements.
  • conradconrad
    Posts: 978
    It probably worked well in the opinion of the creators considering that it was a test prototype. Presumably it still has some catching up to match the quality of a traditional snowmaking system.
  • DrJeffDrJeff
    Posts: 1,333
    The biggest issue that I could foresee of this system and it's uses other than some isolated, small places on a mountain, is that modern snowmaking efforts, even at a small mountain, are going to be looking at 25 to 50 million gallons of water use a season (and for many resorts, 10 fold plus those amounts of water per season, and also the water volume available to quickly take advantage of short snowmaking windows that often are associated with early season as well as post thaw recovery efforts. So many snow guns, be it air/water or fan guns, have water flow options where they can send well over 100 gallons per minute in certain wet bulb temps through the nozzles, and even in more marginal wet bulb temps when often more air and less water are needed, you still will see water flow rates around or above that 40 gallons/min number that you mentioned was observed on his this past season. There is a reason why for so many mountains these days when you here about snowmaking upgrades its very often about uping their water pumping capacity, which now for many resorts, and not just big resorts, is in that 7500-10000+ gallons per minute range

    As snow making adapts and evolves for what often these days is more marginal, shorter windows of snowmaking temps, resort operators often have to look at ways to maximize production (ultimately get more water through the gun) in shorter windows of time over more trails simultaneosly, which eventually gets down to how much stored and/or available water via your source to allow your system to run at maximum capacity in those short windows?
  • newpylongnewpylong
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,512
    joshua_segal wrote: »
    newpylong wrote: »
    Sounds like you're not getting a clear picture/accurate assessment.

    It seems as though you're doubling down on an opinion based on hearsay from someone who is unlikely to have correct information. A first name is all I need for me to determine the credibility of your source.
    TomWhite wrote: »
    I met Peter a couple of summers ago. This was pre-prototype. I too questioned the "scale issue". Could they find sufficient subsurface water near where guns would run? If they can, I will be positive about the future of the system.
    This is a reasonable statement. ReNew Snow only made a little snow, but they made a lot of water flow measurements.

    I have no skin in the game and I think folks know by now I don't post rumors or information that is hearsay.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    newpylong wrote: »
    joshua_segal wrote: »
    newpylong wrote: »
    Sounds like you're not getting a clear picture/accurate assessment.

    It seems as though you're doubling down on an opinion based on hearsay from someone who is unlikely to have correct information. A first name is all I need for me to determine the credibility of your source.
    TomWhite wrote: »
    I met Peter a couple of summers ago. This was pre-prototype. I too questioned the "scale issue". Could they find sufficient subsurface water near where guns would run? If they can, I will be positive about the future of the system.
    This is a reasonable statement. ReNew Snow only made a little snow, but they made a lot of water flow measurements.

    I have no skin in the game and I think folks know by now I don't post rumors or information that is hearsay.

    ReNew Snow used a standard off-the-shelf HKD volt gun at the recommended water pressure. So, unless the gun was defective, the snow coming out was standard HKD snow.
  • TomWhiteTomWhite
    Posts: 2,598
    From Ropeways.net:
    ReNewSnow Receives $50,000 Grant from Maine Technology Institute
    This achievement underscores the commitment to bring groundbreaking snowmaking technology to the ski industry and further validates the promise of the SnowPod system.

    This funding will be directed towards the research and development for a large-scale commercial installation at the Saddleback Mountain Ski Resort.

    The SnowPod system dramatically reduces energy usage and operates independently from conventional snowmaking systems. This not only increases a resort's snow production capacity, but it is also less expensive to build and cheaper to operate, compared to legacy snowmaking systems.

    https://www.renewsnow.ski/
  • newpylongnewpylong
    Posts: 2,512
    2.0 will be on the Morning Glory trail this upcoming season.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    newpylong wrote: »
    2.0 will be on the Morning Glory trail this upcoming season.

    Also, Hudson Highway.
  • skelley19skelley19
    Posts: 361
    All of Hudson Highway? That is a pretty long and meandering trail.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal
    Posts: 4,855
    skelley19 wrote: »
    All of Hudson Highway? That is a pretty long and meandering trail.

    No. The top part has snowmaking already. The part above Morning Glory does not.
  • newpylongnewpylong
    Posts: 2,512
    Have attached. Red = no snowmaking for those two trails.

    9ndq1xv3l1zo.jpg
  • skelley19skelley19
    Posts: 361
    Nice that should be a good test of the system. Not sure if related at all but I saw on Instagram that they got a big delivery of SMI snowmaking equipment yesterday:

    "Thanks to our friends at SMI we just received a BIG Snowmaking order, including 2 automated Super Puma snow guns, more trusty Pole Cats, and 27 Grizzly Low-E guns."

  • newpylongnewpylong
    Posts: 2,512
    Not related, those are earmarked for where there is snowmaking.
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