Interestingly down here in PA, there was alot of backlash about Peak Resorts purchase of Snow Times and changing the season pass offerings. This is a game changer as Epic Local Pass will be big seller now with options to go out West while skiing locally. I wouldn't be surprised to see a regional pass created to wet the appetite more. Of course this is all contingent on the SEC approval of the sale.
Ya we thought that here in Vermont and it was a no go.....this is nothing but bad news for skiers who don't travel like 99% of Ski Roundtop customers.....its basically a screwing. I really feel bad for Snow time employees who will see a lot of changes ....none for the good.
Actually alot of passholders pre-Peak acquisition ski out West at so point during the season. 80 percent if not more were from Baltimore/DC metro area and the rest were locals local residents. I do expect Vail resorts to create a Mid Atlantic pass maybe not this year but definitely next, to create affordable skiing in the region. They are in the market the make money but not lose skiers.
Living down here the backlash about pass prices in March was very loudly heard at Roundtop, Liberty and Whitetail. PR dept handling of it wasn't well received and even today Whitetail's FB page still echo negative comments about Peak. I bought the Epic Local Pass last year but held off to see what the pass wars would create. I wasn't going to pay price for a Peak Pass when I saw pricing. On the regional ski blog site down here many are cheering not jeering about the Epic Local Pass which was about the same price for the Snow Times pass. I now plan renew my Epic Local pass which gives me more options North and out West.
As for Snow Times employees, if anything it is better reassurance with a financially stronger company at the helm. Vail Resorts customer service philosophy is similar to Snow Times, create value and they come. Employees feed on this if they are treated right. Peak Resorts came in and learned the hard way. All 3 areas had a shortage of employees this past season. The vibe will be positive as long as they listen. They made that fatal error in PC and paid for it at the end of the year. Time will time tell how it plays out.
However, I have a vested interest in how this will change Crotched Mountain - not only as a ski area, but how management will change with respect to both Snow Sports Instructors and Patrolmen.
And part time lifty's?
This seams to have caught everyone by surprise! $700 is now the cheapest(non-vet) option for a season's pass to ski Crotched, or any of the other smaller hills.
Josh I agree with you, how Vail plan's to consolidate management and operations will be interesting. On a side note, maybe they might finally re-opening the old Crotched and possibly development more of the interconnection between each area. I know pipe dream but anything is possible, lol.
However, I have a vested interest in how this will change Crotched Mountain - not only as a ski area, but how management will change with respect to both Snow Sports Instructors and Patrolmen.
And part time lifty's?
This seams to have caught everyone by surprise! $700 is now the cheapest(non-vet) option for a season's pass to ski Crotched, or any of the other smaller hills.
I think they said if you already bought a Peak Pass, it will be honored for the 2019-20 season.
Reading the SEC filings and the Investor notifications it appears that Vail has incorporated a subsidiary in Missouri to manage the Peak properties as a separate entity initially. With a planned fall closing of the deal it is unlikely that anything significant will be changing for the coming season. A little window dressing at each resort, just to let people know better things are coming, would be appropriate.
This gives them a year to figure out what to change. There was mention of expecting to spend $15,000,000 in the first 2 years on CAPEX projects. Enough for some visibility items like a few new signature lifts, spruce-ups of worn properties (like Crotched) and laying the groundwork for "RESORT" vs "ski area" mentalities at the larger areas.
The EPIC site has a first pass at adding the PEAK areas, mostly just an announcement. How to integrate the PEAK passes into the larger corporate mix is still an open question. Expect VAIL to try to avoid annoying too many people, especially those SJ people. Maybe we will see a good integrated RFID system coming out of the deal early on.
If you'd like something to engage in idle speculation over take a look at VAIL SIGNATURE CLUBS on line, very similar up-scale model to the Hermitage but with an established base. There is a Stratton Mountain Club & others already.
{Joshua, us patrollers and instructors at Crotched may enjoy a step up the economic ladder. Valet Parking attendants have snappier uniforms, heated garages and even paychecks!}
As a stockholder in Peak, I just saw my shares double in value. As a slopeside condo owner, I suspect this will result in a huge bump in real estate values.
However, I have a vested interest in how this will change Crotched Mountain - not only as a ski area, but how management will change with respect to both Snow Sports Instructors and Patrolmen.
A new patch for your jacket? Vail R Us, along these lines:-)
All jokes aside, talking to folks at some of the western resorts that have gone to Vail, the homeowners are generally more upbeat about these acquisitions than the resort employees.
Well, there goes my hope for Ski Bradford to be acquired by Peak. Somehow I don't think Vail would be interested in 220 vertical feet. It would debase their brand. But if they did I could say I'm a ski instructor for Vail (resorts).
Seriously, Vail may rebrand the smaller Peak areas into a wholly owned subsidiary or as suggested earlier, sell them off.
Well, there goes my hope for Ski Bradford to be acquired by Peak. Somehow I don't think Vail would be interested in 220 vertical feet. It would debase their brand. But if they did I could say I'm a ski instructor for Vail (resorts).
Seriously, Vail may rebrand the smaller Peak areas into a wholly owned subsidiary or as suggested earlier, sell them off.
Vail runs Afton Alps in Minnesota with 350' vertical.
$15,000,000 in the first 2 years on CAPEX projects? 17 areas, 2 years, averages $411k/year/resort. Now that's not how it'll work, but $15mm over 2 years is not very much.
Well, there goes my hope for Ski Bradford to be acquired by Peak. Somehow I don't think Vail would be interested in 220 vertical feet. It would debase their brand. But if they did I could say I'm a ski instructor for Vail (resorts).
Seriously, Vail may rebrand the smaller Peak areas into a wholly owned subsidiary or as suggested earlier, sell them off.
Vail runs Afton Alps in Minnesota with 350' vertical.
They also own Mt Brighton in Brighton. Mi and it's only 250' vertical. Vail actually put around 10 million into the ski area, new lifts, new snow making system and remodeled the lodge.
Looks like more skiing at Berkshire East, Bromley and Magic than last year. If Liftopia is no longer able to offer good mid-week deals at Mount Snow, I'll go elsewhere. It's a shame as Mount Snow is only 85 miles away from my house.
<p abp="321"><strong abp="322">Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.</strong></p>
After sitting on this for a day a few random thoughts
First, I'll ride out my Peak pass for a season and see what happens. Maybe upgrade to the Epic if it's really cheap, and I feel like a couple days at Stowe.
So much for the loose ropes, and boundary policy at The Cat and Crotched.
Mt Snow will be off limits to me at most times, as it was already beyond my threshold of too crowded.
I hope they keep an early and late option, or else I'm surely out.
Wildcat Epic? Nooooo.
It's way too early to think about next season's pass as I'm sure things will change and change again before then, but I think if things are the same I won't be going Epic again.
20 years ago the Vail Daily newspaper had a survey and 94% said they hated the way Vail Associates treated their employees. Hope they've learned since......
I wonder if this will change Wildcat going for the early and late season market.
It's way too early to tell IMO but
Epic historyy says the season will be shortened.
Hopefully they let the current schedule ride for at least this season
I've only heard rumors but what does Vail really do with the volunteer patrollers and other local folk/workers that make each area unique. Are they cut loose or assimilated? Who owns Killington?
"Making ski films is being irresponsible with other people's money, in a responsible sort of way..." <div>Greg Stump</div>
My Sunapee friends tell me that they phase out the volunteer patrollers and encourage that by not giving them perks. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from someone works for or has info on Vail's smaller areas: Afton Alps, MN (350' vert.), Mt. Brighton, MI (230' vert.) and Wilmot Mountain, WI (198' vert.).
NES13 that is my concern too. Will Vail drop that tradition of Wildcat opening as early as possible and closing as late as possible in N.H. It would be nice if they just pounded some of the trails all season long and give Killington a run for the King of Spring Crown and they definitely could pull it off. Also will they let the over flow parking for Tuckerman in spring continue.
NES13 that is my concern too. Will Vail drop that tradition of Wildcat opening as early as possible and closing as late as possible in N.H. It would be nice if they just pounded some of the trails all season long and give Killington a run for the King of Spring Crown and they definitely could pull it off. Also will they let the over flow parking for Tuckerman in spring continue.
Not without a Catapult style upper mountain lift. Any of the runs to the base are extremely long and I think they'd have a hard time recouping the cost to put 25 feet of snow on the entire length.
Wildcat early season should be secure this year. It may be open before the VAIL sale closes. Peak spent a lot of money on a major snowmaking overhaul to gain visibility, provide an Attitash alternative early season and provide early skiing for NE PEAK pass holders. 150 day seasons have become the norm up there. Will it gain more traffic from EPIC?, enough to justify the expense of competing with Sunday River & Killington (and even Bretton Woods early season)? We'll see.
Last year Mount Snow flexed its new snowmaking muscle and had 4x more trails open for Thanksgiving than Kmart. What materialized was better than expected... people showed up, skied & spent money. If there is a potential for Thanksgiving to consistently achieve near Xmas/MLK/Spring Break type crowds then opening days should creep back before the Boston Ski show (second weekend of November) to whet people's appetites for a good early season skiing experience. Lots of drone footage will be needed to convince people this is the real thing, not a WRD with stairs.
Will Vail drop that tradition of Wildcat opening as early as possible and closing as late as possible in N.H.
How short of a period of time does something take to make it a "tradition"? They have only been in the early season game since the new snow making was installed after their catastrophic pipe blow out, I think that was 2014.
It would be sad to see another option removed from early season. Wildcat opening early takes pressure off the early season upload at Sunday River. I usually end up at SR because the price is almost half as much as the Cat (less vert but I'd rather pay less).
Wildcat late season could be in jeopardy and that is the bigger concern. Late season at the Cat is definitely a tradition. Wildcat has excellent late season skiing. Late season profitability is very weather dependent. I could see them not putting in the extra effort to save a few bucks.
The official response that I got when I replied to the link that said that my account had been suspended and I felt that I had been wrongly suspended, was that they ended the forum for a few reasons.
First they were expecting a large number of questions once the announcement of the merger broke and wanted to address all questions in their public social media forums to be completely transparent. Secondly, the implication was there that this forum, wasn't something that fit within current Vail resorts operating policies.
I certainly have enjoyed that forum over the last decade or so. I hope that going forward that Vail resorts will continue to encourage such direct and open communications with their customers. That was certainly one of the many great characteristics that Kelly P had in her management style, and characteristics that she appears to be bringing to her new job as President of the National Ski Areas Association. She had a nice way of weaving the fine line between true industry corporate "secrets" and complete and open transparency with one's customers, and many of those who worked under her guidance over the years have continued to follow in her communication styles
The official response that I got when I replied to the link that said that my account had been suspended and I felt that I had been wrongly suspended, was that they ended the forum for a few reasons.
First they were expecting a large number of questions once the announcement of the merger broke and wanted to address all questions in their public social media forums to be completely transparent. Secondly, the implication was there that this forum, wasn't something that fit within current Vail resorts operating policies.
I certainly have enjoyed that forum over the last decade or so. I hope that going forward that Vail resorts will continue to encourage such direct and open communications with their customers. That was certainly one of the many great characteristics that Kelly P had in her management style, and characteristics that she appears to be bringing to her new job as President of the National Ski Areas Association. She had a nice way of weaving the fine line between true industry corporate "secrets" and complete and open transparency with one's customers, and many of those who worked under her guidance over the years have continued to follow in her communication styles
I too was quite upset to see the notification of a suspended account and messaged the mountain on Facebook Messenger and was told the same thing. I told them that the passholder forum was something that set Mount Snow apart from the other mountains in Southern VT as you could voice something and management would hopefully see it. What I did not like was that once Kelly left Erik Barnes GM never once posted and responded to things like Kelly. We just were left to deal with Jamie who was just a middle man in a sense and I feel sometimes we never got an exact clear answer to things.
For those of you wondering about passes, you might want to look at Okemo as an example. All Okemo passes were honored and at pass pick up, they offered the option to upgrade to Epic. Everyone was told that it would be Epic only for 2019-20. There were many complaints, and VR listened. For 2019-20, there are many Okemo/Sunapee only options at similar rates to 2018-19, including the 80+ pass.
Comments
Actually alot of passholders pre-Peak acquisition ski out West at so point during the season. 80 percent if not more were from Baltimore/DC metro area and the rest were locals local residents. I do expect Vail resorts to create a Mid Atlantic pass maybe not this year but definitely next, to create affordable skiing in the region. They are in the market the make money but not lose skiers.
Living down here the backlash about pass prices in March was very loudly heard at Roundtop, Liberty and Whitetail. PR dept handling of it wasn't well received and even today Whitetail's FB page still echo negative comments about Peak. I bought the Epic Local Pass last year but held off to see what the pass wars would create. I wasn't going to pay price for a Peak Pass when I saw pricing. On the regional ski blog site down here many are cheering not jeering about the Epic Local Pass which was about the same price for the Snow Times pass. I now plan renew my Epic Local pass which gives me more options North and out West.
As for Snow Times employees, if anything it is better reassurance with a financially stronger company at the helm. Vail Resorts customer service philosophy is similar to Snow Times, create value and they come. Employees feed on this if they are treated right. Peak Resorts came in and learned the hard way. All 3 areas had a shortage of employees this past season. The vibe will be positive as long as they listen. They made that fatal error in PC and paid for it at the end of the year. Time will time tell how it plays out.
And part time lifty's?
This seams to have caught everyone by surprise! $700 is now the cheapest(non-vet) option for a season's pass to ski Crotched, or any of the other smaller hills.
I think they said if you already bought a Peak Pass, it will be honored for the 2019-20 season.
This gives them a year to figure out what to change. There was mention of expecting to spend $15,000,000 in the first 2 years on CAPEX projects. Enough for some visibility items like a few new signature lifts, spruce-ups of worn properties (like Crotched) and laying the groundwork for "RESORT" vs "ski area" mentalities at the larger areas.
The EPIC site has a first pass at adding the PEAK areas, mostly just an announcement. How to integrate the PEAK passes into the larger corporate mix is still an open question. Expect VAIL to try to avoid annoying too many people, especially those SJ people. Maybe we will see a good integrated RFID system coming out of the deal early on.
If you'd like something to engage in idle speculation over take a look at VAIL SIGNATURE CLUBS on line, very similar up-scale model to the Hermitage but with an established base. There is a Stratton Mountain Club & others already.
{Joshua, us patrollers and instructors at Crotched may enjoy a step up the economic ladder. Valet Parking attendants have snappier uniforms, heated garages and even paychecks!}
A new patch for your jacket? Vail R Us, along these lines:-)
All jokes aside, talking to folks at some of the western resorts that have gone to Vail, the homeowners are generally more upbeat about these acquisitions than the resort employees.
Seriously, Vail may rebrand the smaller Peak areas into a wholly owned subsidiary or as suggested earlier, sell them off.
Vail runs Afton Alps in Minnesota with 350' vertical.
They also own Mt Brighton in Brighton. Mi and it's only 250' vertical. Vail actually put around 10 million into the ski area, new lifts, new snow making system and remodeled the lodge.
First, I'll ride out my Peak pass for a season and see what happens. Maybe upgrade to the Epic if it's really cheap, and I feel like a couple days at Stowe.
So much for the loose ropes, and boundary policy at The Cat and Crotched.
Mt Snow will be off limits to me at most times, as it was already beyond my threshold of too crowded.
I hope they keep an early and late option, or else I'm surely out.
Wildcat Epic? Nooooo.
It's way too early to think about next season's pass as I'm sure things will change and change again before then, but I think if things are the same I won't be going Epic again.
Rant may continue at any time...Chuck
It's way too early to tell IMO but
Epic historyy says the season will be shortened.
Hopefully they let the current schedule ride for at least this season
My Sunapee friends tell me that they phase out the volunteer patrollers and encourage that by not giving them perks. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from someone works for or has info on Vail's smaller areas: Afton Alps, MN (350' vert.), Mt. Brighton, MI (230' vert.) and Wilmot Mountain, WI (198' vert.).
Not without a Catapult style upper mountain lift. Any of the runs to the base are extremely long and I think they'd have a hard time recouping the cost to put 25 feet of snow on the entire length.
Last year Mount Snow flexed its new snowmaking muscle and had 4x more trails open for Thanksgiving than Kmart. What materialized was better than expected... people showed up, skied & spent money. If there is a potential for Thanksgiving to consistently achieve near Xmas/MLK/Spring Break type crowds then opening days should creep back before the Boston Ski show (second weekend of November) to whet people's appetites for a good early season skiing experience. Lots of drone footage will be needed to convince people this is the real thing, not a WRD with stairs.
It would be sad to see another option removed from early season. Wildcat opening early takes pressure off the early season upload at Sunday River. I usually end up at SR because the price is almost half as much as the Cat (less vert but I'd rather pay less).
Wildcat late season could be in jeopardy and that is the bigger concern. Late season at the Cat is definitely a tradition. Wildcat has excellent late season skiing. Late season profitability is very weather dependent. I could see them not putting in the extra effort to save a few bucks.
thesnowway.com
I think it was dropped a bit at Sunapee.
If i recall correctly, it was Kelly P. who created it. What a great resource
First they were expecting a large number of questions once the announcement of the merger broke and wanted to address all questions in their public social media forums to be completely transparent. Secondly, the implication was there that this forum, wasn't something that fit within current Vail resorts operating policies.
I certainly have enjoyed that forum over the last decade or so. I hope that going forward that Vail resorts will continue to encourage such direct and open communications with their customers. That was certainly one of the many great characteristics that Kelly P had in her management style, and characteristics that she appears to be bringing to her new job as President of the National Ski Areas Association. She had a nice way of weaving the fine line between true industry corporate "secrets" and complete and open transparency with one's customers, and many of those who worked under her guidance over the years have continued to follow in her communication styles
I too was quite upset to see the notification of a suspended account and messaged the mountain on Facebook Messenger and was told the same thing. I told them that the passholder forum was something that set Mount Snow apart from the other mountains in Southern VT as you could voice something and management would hopefully see it. What I did not like was that once Kelly left Erik Barnes GM never once posted and responded to things like Kelly. We just were left to deal with Jamie who was just a middle man in a sense and I feel sometimes we never got an exact clear answer to things.