Crotched Mountain - 2022-3 Season

obienick

Remember, Vail has your money already with their push for pass sales, and possibly even has your money for next season … they have no incentive to open any later than need be. One more weekend is just more costs for groomers, lifties, F&B, patrol, etc. with no new income.

tedede

And how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.

NewEnglandSkier13

tedede;c-60102 wroteAnd how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.

There are many places that don't push pass sales until later in spring, summer, or fall.

It highlights the difference between places that depend on pass sales for most of their income and places which rely heavily on day pass sales. Vail knows that most visits late season will be passholder visits, and any new day pass revenue would be minimal.

There are also some places, like BMOM which regularly make their last weekend of the season free or heavily discounted. BMOM is offering free skiing to everyone this coming weekend.

DrJeff

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60103 wrote
tedede;c-60102 wroteAnd how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.
There are ~~many~~ places that don't push pass sales until later in spring, summer, or fall.

It highlights the difference between places that depend on pass sales for most of their income and places which rely heavily on day pass sales. Vail knows that most visits late season will be passholder visits, and any new day pass revenue would be minimal.

There are also some places, like BMOM which regularly make their last weekend of the season free or heavily discounted. BMOM is offering free skiing to everyone this coming weekend.

Fixed it for you ;)

The reality is, that the majority of mountains, whether part of a mega pass, or independents of small, medium and large size, will sell you a pass for next season now, and often incentivize folks to buy now via things like lower pricing, skiing the end of this season on next years pass, discounted or free tickets for friends for the following season, etc.

Resorts looking to do some off season capital improvemets definitely like the infusion of cash into their bank account as they head into the off season.

Plus, if they sell a pass for next season now, they can help lock in customers for next season, which cuts down on marketing efforts needed for the following year.

It's not much different than the golf course I belong to, where around Thanksgiving time when the course has closed for the Winter, I have to put down a $500 "commitment for next season" payment, then I get installment #1 of my annual dues on Feb 1st, and the 2nd installment of my annual dues on May 1st (my course typically opens up the 1st or 2nd week of April), so they have all of the members (very simliar to a ski area passholder) all paid up when the typically 8 month season is less than a month old, and then mid season revenue is driven by guest fees, golf cart rentals, lessons, merchandise sales as well as food and beverage sales and some outside tournament play. It's basically a subscription service with a few options for add ons

NewEnglandSkier13

DrJeff;c-60106 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60103 wrote
tedede;c-60102 wroteAnd how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.
There are ~~many~~ places that don't push pass sales until later in spring, summer, or fall.

It highlights the difference between places that depend on pass sales for most of their income and places which rely heavily on day pass sales. Vail knows that most visits late season will be passholder visits, and any new day pass revenue would be minimal.

There are also some places, like BMOM which regularly make their last weekend of the season free or heavily discounted. BMOM is offering free skiing to everyone this coming weekend.
Fixed it for you ;)

No, you're wrong. There are many places that don't sell passes while the previous season is still taking place. I can name 20+ just in New England if you really need me to. You know, places that aren't trying to turn the ski experience into something like going to a country club. ;)

DrJeff

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60107 wrote
DrJeff;c-60106 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60103 wrote
tedede;c-60102 wroteAnd how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.
There are ~~many~~ places that don't push pass sales until later in spring, summer, or fall.

It highlights the difference between places that depend on pass sales for most of their income and places which rely heavily on day pass sales. Vail knows that most visits late season will be passholder visits, and any new day pass revenue would be minimal.

There are also some places, like BMOM which regularly make their last weekend of the season free or heavily discounted. BMOM is offering free skiing to everyone this coming weekend.
Fixed it for you ;)

No, you're wrong. There are many places that don't sell passes while the previous season is still taking place. It's mainly the larger and corporate resorts that do these early season pass sales.

I shall respectfully disagree with you on this one, just based on my social media feed, which is filled with plenty of ski areas of all sizes and ownership models, and the vast majority of them are having regular notification of next seasons passes being on sale now.

Is that all of the mountains? No, it isn't.

Is it more mountains than not? While I haven't done an exhaustive list of every mountain out there, I am guessing that the majority of mountains will sell you one now, while they still have active customers showing up if they are still open for the season. That just makes smart business sense to capture a customer while they are an actve participant and the feels of sliding down a snow covered hill is fresh in their mind

NewEnglandSkier13

DrJeff;c-60108 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60107 wrote
DrJeff;c-60106 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60103 wrote
tedede;c-60102 wroteAnd how is that different from anyone else that sells a season pass?

Nevermind. We must hate Vail.
There are ~~many~~ places that don't push pass sales until later in spring, summer, or fall.

It highlights the difference between places that depend on pass sales for most of their income and places which rely heavily on day pass sales. Vail knows that most visits late season will be passholder visits, and any new day pass revenue would be minimal.

There are also some places, like BMOM which regularly make their last weekend of the season free or heavily discounted. BMOM is offering free skiing to everyone this coming weekend.
Fixed it for you ;)

No, you're wrong. There are many places that don't sell passes while the previous season is still taking place. It's mainly the larger and corporate resorts that do these early season pass sales.
I shall respectfully disagree with you on this one, just based on my social media feed, which is filled with plenty of ski areas of all sizes and ownership models, and the vast majority of them are having regular notification of next seasons passes being on sale now.

Is that all of the mountains? No, it isn't.

Is it more mountains than not? While I haven't done an exhaustive list of every mountain out there, I am guessing that the majority of mountains will sell you one now, while they still have active customers showing up if they are still open for the season. That just makes smart business sense to capture a customer while they are an actve participant and the feels of sliding down a snow covered hill is fresh in their mind

Saying "many mountains," which is what I said, is different from saying "the majority of mountains." Either way, I think majority depends on where you are. Will the majority of mountains in Vermont sell you a pass now? Yes, likely so. Will the majority of mountains in Maine sell you a pass now? No, not even close.

tedede

Every ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

NewEnglandSkier13

tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.

Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

skelley19

What is the actual vertical, I thought it was pretty close to 1,000?

NewEnglandSkier13

skelley19;c-60120 wroteWhat is the actual vertical, I thought it was pretty close to 1,000?

It's about 850 vertical feet. It's one of the best examples of vertical drop exaggeration. They've claimed 1,000 vertical at least since Peak reopened it.

NewEnglandSkier13

joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60122 wrote
skelley19;c-60120 wroteWhat is the actual vertical, I thought it was pretty close to 1,000?
It's about 850 vertical feet. It's one of the best examples of vertical drop exaggeration. They've claimed 1,000 vertical at least since Peak reopened it.

The Rocket rises 875'. The bottom of the double is a bit lower, so I suspect it is just under 900' vertical.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60123 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.

And I ask again: What point are you making? Numerous areas round up on their vertical. Pico at 1937' is about the only one close to the next thousand that hasn't rounded up. Still, that has nothing to do with season passes. I suspect your hatred of all things corporate and all things Vail are clouding your vision of reality.

NewEnglandSkier13

joshua_segal;c-60126 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60123 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.
And I ask again: What point are you making? Numerous areas round up on their vertical. Pico at 1937' is about the only one close to the next thousand that hasn't rounded up. Still, that has nothing to do with season passes. I suspect your hatred of all things corporate and all things Vail are clouding your vision of reality.

BigRock has 980 vertical feet, and they don't round up. That's the closest I know of. I think we had a thread on this a while back that showed Crotched was one of the biggest exaggerators in New England. Looking at a topo map, even if you stretch it a bit and give every benefit of the doubt, you can't get Crotched at more than 880 vertical.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60127 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60126 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60123 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.
And I ask again: What point are you making? Numerous areas round up on their vertical. Pico at 1937' is about the only one close to the next thousand that hasn't rounded up. Still, that has nothing to do with season passes. I suspect your hatred of all things corporate and all things Vail are clouding your vision of reality.
BigRock has 980 vertical feet, and they don't round up. That's the closest I know of. I think we had a thread on this a while back that showed Crotched was one of the biggest exaggerators in New England. Looking at a topo map, even if you stretch it a bit and give every benefit of the doubt, you can't get Crotched at more than 880 vertical.

So what. And I ask again: What point are you trying to make?

Quietman

Approx. 900'

NewEnglandSkier13

joshua_segal;c-60128 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60127 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60126 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60123 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.
And I ask again: What point are you making? Numerous areas round up on their vertical. Pico at 1937' is about the only one close to the next thousand that hasn't rounded up. Still, that has nothing to do with season passes. I suspect your hatred of all things corporate and all things Vail are clouding your vision of reality.
BigRock has 980 vertical feet, and they don't round up. That's the closest I know of. I think we had a thread on this a while back that showed Crotched was one of the biggest exaggerators in New England. Looking at a topo map, even if you stretch it a bit and give every benefit of the doubt, you can't get Crotched at more than 880 vertical.
So what. And I ask again: What point are you trying to make?

Tedede was the one who started the discussion about vertical drop. I'm wondering what point he was trying to make. He made it sound like only ski areas over 1,000 vertical mattered.

joshua_segal

NewEnglandSkier13;c-60130 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60128 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60127 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60126 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60123 wrote
joshua_segal;c-60118 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-60115 wrote
tedede;c-60112 wroteEvery ski area in Maine over 1000' is selling 23/24 passes now, including BMOM.

That's true, but that's only 6 out of 20 ski areas in the state. Crotched is also well under 1,000 vertical.
Now that the thread has temporarily been hijacked to selling season passes: Sam: What point are you making by citing that CM is under 1000 vertical? CM is part of Vail. CM doesn't sell season passes!

Just because Tedede was using that as a benchmark for some reason. And yes, Crotched season passes are Epic Passes, same as Sugarloaf season passes are New England Passes.
And I ask again: What point are you making? Numerous areas round up on their vertical. Pico at 1937' is about the only one close to the next thousand that hasn't rounded up. Still, that has nothing to do with season passes. I suspect your hatred of all things corporate and all things Vail are clouding your vision of reality.
BigRock has 980 vertical feet, and they don't round up. That's the closest I know of. I think we had a thread on this a while back that showed Crotched was one of the biggest exaggerators in New England. Looking at a topo map, even if you stretch it a bit and give every benefit of the doubt, you can't get Crotched at more than 880 vertical.
So what. And I ask again: What point are you trying to make?
Tedede was the one who started the discussion about vertical drop. I'm wondering what point he was trying to make. He made it sound like only ski areas over 1,000 vertical mattered.

As I read it, Ted was pointing to the collection of local areas that do not have conditions posted on snocountry and that have no market beyond their local communities. This includes areas such as Abenaki, McIntyre, Living Memorial (Brattleboro), etc.

Some of these areas are run by volunteers. Most are not-for-profit. I don't think anyone serious about skiing think that these areas are not important to the industry as a whole. But when speaking about the economics of the industry, they are insignificant.

« Previous Page Next Page »