Vail Fail 2025/2026

DrJeff

I mean it’s mid week in Early June, not exactly going to expect to see much activity at almost any ski resort short of maybe some off season mtn ops work and maybe a few people around if the resort is hosting some meeting/convention if one is honest about the reality of mid week, early June at a ski area….

Most resorts that have say Summer lift ops or Summer kids camps don’t really get going with those until later June after most schools have let out for the Summer

NELSBEER

I know that at Crotched they typically have a 4 day work week with 10 hour days during the summer, at least for the outside crews. This allows them to move work days around to avoid extreme heat or weather events. They also schedule their tasks with weather as a consideration. Appears to be a win-win common sense method to do things.

Go by on a pleasant afternoon & staff are outside working on trails, brush back & snowmaking maintenance. At Crotched they striped the chair grips for testing first thing & already have 2 chairlift’s (Valley & West) grips back & the chairs hung. Later they will be reportedly working on the snowmaking pond.

ski_it

DrJeff I mean it’s mid week

Yeah sorry I forgot my wink emoji again

NELSBEER

I heard from one of the guys flexible work weeks really work out well. Better tee times & less crowded clubhouse on weekdays. It fits in well with winter when everything is subject to the weather’s whims.

Of course in a few years as AI merges with Piston-Bully technology & SMI guns there will be very little to watch on the hill as all the work is done remotely from the maintenance shack control room or by groomers working remotely with 3-D heads up displays,

What a great thread, should we be using drones to seed the clouds?

Quietman

Skiing bots are here, ski patrol bots may be next! 😉

NELSBEER

VAIL stock was up $14,85 yesterday to $144.78.

Much higher than it has been since this bad winter.

When I checked NEWS pages for causes I saw.

* ACTIVIST OASIS CAPITAL MANAGEMENT CONSIDERING PROXY FIGHT AT VAIL RESORTS TO SHAKE UP CO’S BOARD, EXPLORE SELLING OFF VAIL’S MOUNTAINS- SEMAFOR Source text: tinyurl.com/52z3jjw9 Further company coverage: link below

Another source reported:
In corporate news, Vail Resorts (MTN) is working with takeover-defense bankers to help the company assess potential risks from labor, a prominent billionaire, and other external pressures, Semafor reported. Vail shares jumped 11%.

As I remember, OASIS is a stockholder, about 16% of outstanding shares. I was wondering why they were holding so much, this probably is the answer. Oasis, one of the most aggressive and high-profile activist investors in Asia, has steadily amassed a sizable position in Vail, proxy records show.

Full Article: Click the link for a fuller picture including interviews etc. Look at embedded links for more color.
[https://www.semafor.com/article/06/18/2026/activist-weighs-proxy-fight-at-vail]

My take is if you can’t control the weather, you better control the SNOW! Snowmaking, the equipment & willingness to spend extra bucks early, mid & late season & letting people know that skiing is good may be the answer.

rickbolger

Seems Oasis wants Vail to unload properties but keep the Epic pass – have the individual mountains operated by more local, caring & capable parties and participate in the pass and the branding in some sort of franchise arrangement. Katz is predictably dismissive. I’m in favor of any arrangement that would restore Wildcat to its former glory.

MTN was good to me. Rode it up in 2020 and took my profits way too soon. Grabbed it again in late 2022 but it was too choppy, wasn’t really worth it. Has been on the downturn ever since. It’s hard to avoid this thing, it lives in almost any fund with mid caps, albeit very small. Personally I wouldn’t buy it as an individual stock for much over $40. Hope I’m wrong.

Beast Patroller

I think unloading properties and returning them to more private ownership would be better for the mountains and the customers! Epic could offer the same packages they currently offer but it could be treated similar to the Indy Pass. Though instead of only 2 visits per mountain they could setup a reasonable number of days (ie, 5-10 days). This would also allow the mountains to offer their own season pass for those who only want to ski at one mountain. Sadly, I doubt Katz will ever go for it.

ski_it

They were talking stock prices…but you can already get an Epic day pass 7 days for as low as $323. Non peak, 22 resorts.
Dang how did I get on the wrong side of the OP??

Beast Patroller

@“ski_it” Dang how did I get on the wrong side of the OP??

I know what you mean, I’m still against Vail and what they’ve done to the ski industry! Though my wife & I finally realized that they don’t give a damn if we buy season passes or not, we were only punishing ourselves by not using our place near Mount Snow as much as we could. So, this coming season, we bought Senior Northeast Mid-Week passes, and we’re going to try Mount Snow midweek and see if we like it better. Of course, we still got a B’East pass, and we’ll just divide our time between the two areas.

rickbolger

hey that sounds like a smart plan

ski_it

I’m sure you’ll luv MS midweek as long as you don’t mean Friday and some Thursdays. And of course if they run all the pods too

Beast Patroller

Our plan is to ski B’East on Monday’s and then head up to our place in Wilmington. Then ski Mount Snow Tuesday through Thursday and then stop at B’East again on our way home on Friday’s. Of course, weather will dictate how many days during the week we ski. We’re hoping this works out good because we haven’t been using our place as much as we expected, because it’s almost the same travel time from either of our homes to B’East, so we’ve just been traveling from CT to the mountain most of the time. Also, we bought our place in Wilmington so we could ski Mount Snow (before Vail took over) and miss the mountain!

hazlntskier

WSJ article and interview with Katz.
I don’t know if this link will work on not.
https://www.wsj.com/business/c-suite/vail-ceo-says-comeback-plan-for-ski-resorts-needs-to-be-beyond-epic-c614e469?st=AtXPQ3&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

One question was about smaller resorts. Katz wants to improve the “experience”. One is “better food”. One area he did not mention was expanded terrain and new lifts. My thought is that expanding terrain and adding lifts is probably the best way to get more people to try the smaller resorts. Yes it takes a lot of work, but I have seen several mid size mountains not run by Vail expand terrain and add new lifts recently. Also in the New England area we desperately need more terrain to spread out skiers/riders. Good examples are Crotched, Sunapee and Attitash. Ragged, Waterville, Gunstock are all talking about adding terrain.

lotsoskiing

hazlntskier But where could those three NH Vail areas expand to? Much blocked by old growth or birds.

Chuckstah

This is the approved Sunapee plan, but Vail doesn’t appear to have any interest in it.
Resort expansion: West Bowl development ⋆ Friends of Mount Sunapee https://share.google/S5ablI896GkDr6K4H

Crotched is actively exploring the addition of a much needed beginner trail off of the summit, but I doubt they will pony up the $$.
I haven’t heard of any expansion in the works at Attitash, although they are clearing out a new beginner glade for this coming season.

Beast Patroller

Personally I don’t think Rob Katz is interested in investing/upgrading the small areas or the mountains in New Hampshire. They don’t bring the return like the bigger resorts or the mountains in Vermont. Take a look at Hunter MT, not much gets done there either!

rickbolger

they have data on top of data on where their current customers ski; I imagine the places that increase growth are where the money goes. Not sure but it fits that mindset. Question is, do they know who they don’t sell tickets to in the northeast, and why not, and would expansion/improvements at Wildcat etc have any impact at all. Not sure it would. Would more terrain at Sunapee sell enough additional epic passes to cover the costs? Probably not. EBITDA is down to the 24% range from their usual 30ish, so you can bet they’ve run the numbers on any possible ways to get that back up. Could be a reason why they’re putting out press about snowmaking improvements at Wildcat. Just educated hunches – I’m in business but not in the ski business.

Beast Patroller

I understand not spending the money if you’re not going to see the return on it. If that’s the case, then why not sell off the areas (worldwide) that aren’t worth the additional investment and just keep the ones that are?

rickbolger

if I have no heart and no soul, more passion for money than for skiing, and the numbers told me that I sell X number of passes because of Wildcat, and after operations Wildcat returns X + one dollar, and I work in a glass tower, I have no need to sell it. Again, not saying that’s what’s happening here, it’s just a hunch. Also possible that their sell price is too high, also possible that they have some kind of future plan. They don’t have to sell stuff off to survive, it’s not like they’re the cable company or something.

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