Rating the 2023-4 Season Versus the Last 10 Years

Rating the 2023-4 Season Versus the Last 10 Years

If you want to look back at last season, here is the URL for 2022-3:
http://snowjournal.com/discussion/comment/61683#Comment_61683

Final Summary of 2022-3:

2012-3: While there was little snow in December and January, February and March were epic. The snow that did happen in December was right before Christmas week which was timely from an economic point-of-view. Same was true of the January snow with respect to MLK weekend. Although there was minimal early snowfall, there was a lot of good snowmaking weather in December. There were two nasty January thaws, but great mid-winter skiing right into April. Ski areas closing with 100% full-width open trails.
2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. There was a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2.
2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents Day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
2022-3: No October skiing; Very limited November skiing; near record warmth in November impacting early-season snow making; already 3 or 4 freeze/melt cycles. A widespread 12"+ storm hits New England in mid-December providing huge trail expansion and some spectacular December skiing. Late December and early January was rife with rain, although the Xmas week itself was pretty good economically speaking for the industry. The remainder of January was reasonably good with a few powder days. MLK weekend provided 3-better-than-average days. Late Feb. thru March featured several large storms and generally excellent skiing. It should be noted, that if one lived in C, Eastern MA or RI, this season would be ranked lower. Very strong April skiing for the areas that remained open.
2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain. Except for the ice-storm of Feb. 16, the month included many days of superb skiing. The 2nd half of Feb. and all of March included no natural snow. Long COVID-related lift lines continue to be a problem at most areas.
2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18.
2021-22: No lift-serviced Oct. skiing. Nov. 5 to Thanksgiving Week: Just Killington and their 2-trails. By mid-December: Limited skiing at a small percentage of ski areas. Xmas week featured 3-days of rain and fog. By mid-January, only a handful of New England areas are more than half-open. No January thaw. February and March featured some good days, but very little natural snow and lots of warm weather. March was record warm with many areas closing by mid-March. Good spring skiing in April, wasn't enough to redeem this season. Killington made it to June 4, but they were the last open lift-serviced skiing by 3-weeks.
2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.


We'll be dropping #1, the 2012-13 season.

An initial start for the early season:
On the negative, no October skiing.

A number of the big boys were open in November offering limited but OK skiing.

Early December provided extensive snowmaking weather.

While much of ski country was getting rain, the spine of VT got snow and offered excellent early season skiing, even on natural snow advanced runs.

Overall, I would rate the early season as somewhere between C+ and B-. on the above list, I would put it in the middle - 5th or 6th.

Your inputs?
«1345

Comments

  • Posts: 3,603
    I'd put it higher. I can't recall recent years with the combination of snowmaking temps and natural snow. Mid-season conditions have abounded, with some interruptions, but I would put it in top 3
  • It was more than VT that got snow from that storm. Most of Maine got a significant amount too, more than a foot in some places. Late November and the start of December had excellent snowmaking temperatures. However, October was very warm, and this rain event will set everyone back a fair bit. Up until yesterday, Saddleback was 95% open. I would probably put it 3rd or 4th so far.
    - Sam
  • On the negative, no October skiing.

    I feel obliged to point out that there was October skiing (at Ward), it was just very minimal.

    With Killington opening in October in less than half of the 10 most recent seasons, chairlift-served October skiing nowadays should be viewed as a treat rather than a standard or expectation IMHO - i.e. lack of October skiing as a neutral factor rather than a negative one.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 743
    With Killington opening in October in less than half of the 10 most recent seasons, chairlift-served October skiing nowadays should be viewed as a treat rather than a standard or expectation IMHO - i.e. lack of October skiing as a neutral factor rather than a negative one.
    Completely agree. I used to get October skiing one out of three seasons. My last season with October skiing was 2018 (Sunday River). October on natural snow for me was 2016. October skiing should be viewed only as a positive, lack of October is standard rather than a negative.

    This seems like it will be a season of the haves and have nots. Northern areas did quite well so far, southern areas not so much.

    Jay has been 100% skiable on map for over a week with most off map being skiable (if not completely filled in yet). Jay is not 100% only due to not having lifts ready to go and snowmaking completed (all expert on map trails/glades are open).

    Put into context, Jay currently has received 102" already... more than 50% of the average annual snowfall of the best performing NH areas. Stowe, Smuggs, and Bolton (to a lesser extent, due to lower elevation) are probably similar, I would imagine.

    I am a happy camper with my Jay pass. But I would not be thrilled if my local mountain was in southern or central New England. So, probably more of a mixed bag overall, despite strong performances in NoVT and the Whites of Maine.
  • Posts: 3,603
    riverc0il wrote: »
    With Killington opening in October in less than half of the 10 most recent seasons, chairlift-served October skiing nowadays should be viewed as a treat rather than a standard or expectation IMHO - i.e. lack of October skiing as a neutral factor rather than a negative one.
    Completely agree. I used to get October skiing one out of three seasons. My last season with October skiing was 2018 (Sunday River). October on natural snow for me was 2016. October skiing should be viewed only as a positive, lack of October is standard rather than a negative.

    This seems like it will be a season of the haves and have nots. Northern areas did quite well so far, southern areas not so much.

    Jay has been 100% skiable on map for over a week with most off map being skiable (if not completely filled in yet). Jay is not 100% only due to not having lifts ready to go and snowmaking completed (all expert on map trails/glades are open).

    Put into context, Jay currently has received 102" already... more than 50% of the average annual snowfall of the best performing NH areas. Stowe, Smuggs, and Bolton (to a lesser extent, due to lower elevation) are probably similar, I would imagine.

    I am a happy camper with my Jay pass. But I would not be thrilled if my local mountain was in southern or central New England. So, probably more of a mixed bag overall, despite strong performances in NoVT and the Whites of Maine.

    And it is only Dec. 11. I can't remember the last time trails counts were this high, this early, and with consistent snowmaking temps. Many places will go round the closk now through Thursday or so.

  • edited December 2023 Posts: 5,489
    riverc0il wrote: »
    With Killington opening in October in less than half of the 10 most recent seasons, chairlift-served October skiing nowadays should be viewed as a treat rather than a standard or expectation IMHO - i.e. lack of October skiing as a neutral factor rather than a negative one.
    Completely agree. I used to get October skiing one out of three seasons. My last season with October skiing was 2018 (Sunday River). October on natural snow for me was 2016. October skiing should be viewed only as a positive, lack of October is standard rather than a negative.

    This seems like it will be a season of the haves and have nots. Northern areas did quite well so far, southern areas not so much.

    Jay has been 100% skiable on map for over a week with most off map being skiable (if not completely filled in yet). Jay is not 100% only due to not having lifts ready to go and snowmaking completed (all expert on map trails/glades are open).

    Put into context, Jay currently has received 102" already... more than 50% of the average annual snowfall of the best performing NH areas. Stowe, Smuggs, and Bolton (to a lesser extent, due to lower elevation) are probably similar, I would imagine.

    I am a happy camper with my Jay pass. But I would not be thrilled if my local mountain was in southern or central New England. So, probably more of a mixed bag overall, despite strong performances in NoVT and the Whites of Maine.

    And it is only Dec. 11. I can't remember the last time trails counts were this high, this early, and with consistent snowmaking temps. Many places will go round the closk now through Thursday or so.

    I agree. Lost Valley and Quarry Road both have more trails open with snowmaking than I've ever seen this time of year.
    - Sam
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 2,512
    How does the start of 2018-2019 compare? That year at the Whale I started snowmaking in mid-late November and didn't really stop until we were able to open on 12/13 with with 2 T2B routes and the T-Bar. I seem to remember that year not being great on the natural early on, but extremely cold.

    Pic from 11/23
    tskykmu5dr1y.jpg
  • I appreciate all of the comments. Based on the comments, I'm starting this season off in 2nd place. There's lots of this season to go and lots of discussion before we put this thread in the books!

    First Summary of 2023-4:

    2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. There was a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2.
    2023-4: No October skiing (except for Ward Hill). Killington opened Nov. 6. Most of the other "big boys" were able to open for Thanksgiving. Northern areas did better with natural snow, but all of ski country had great snowmaking weather in early December, providing more open terrain than normal.
    2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
    2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents Day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
    2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
    2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
    2022-3: No October skiing; Very limited November skiing; near record warmth in November impacting early-season snow making; already 3 or 4 freeze/melt cycles. A widespread 12"+ storm hits New England in mid-December providing huge trail expansion and some spectacular December skiing. Late December and early January was rife with rain, although the Xmas week itself was pretty good economically speaking for the industry. The remainder of January was reasonably good with a few powder days. MLK weekend provided 3-better-than-average days. Late Feb. thru March featured several large storms and generally excellent skiing. It should be noted, that if one lived in C, Eastern MA or RI, this season would be ranked lower. Very strong April skiing for the areas that remained open.
    2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain. Except for the ice-storm of Feb. 16, the month included many days of superb skiing. The 2nd half of Feb. and all of March included no natural snow. Long COVID-related lift lines continue to be a problem at most areas.
    2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18.
    2021-22: No lift-serviced Oct. skiing. Nov. 5 to Thanksgiving Week: Just Killington and their 2-trails. By mid-December: Limited skiing at a small percentage of ski areas. Xmas week featured 3-days of rain and fog. By mid-January, only a handful of New England areas are more than half-open. No January thaw. February and March featured some good days, but very little natural snow and lots of warm weather. March was record warm with many areas closing by mid-March. Good spring skiing in April, wasn't enough to redeem this season. Killington made it to June 4, but they were the last open lift-serviced skiing by 3-weeks.
    2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.

    Comments always welcome.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 354
    I have no complaints with second.

    I think how close Killington is to being complete in time for the World Cup is a good barometer for the early season. While I have faith they’ll pull it off each year some years seem to be right down to the wire.

    This year I don’t think there was ever any doubt which is a good sign for a good early season.

    Starting around thanksgiving until this past storm things were also pretty great in a lot of places. I had an amazing time skiing in a snowstorm the weekend before last which I don’t get on a lot of early season days.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 5,489
    Well, with that monsoon, I think it easily drops this season to last or second to last, as of now. We've received over 10 inches of rain in December so far, and the next couple of weeks look warm.
    - Sam
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 2,512
    Agreed. These two monsoons pretty much took all the wind out of the good start.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 743
    The storm certainly hit the reset button, but I don't think it eliminates how good the skiing was for the past month.

    It is easy to be pessimistic regarding what was lost. But we must all remember how many seasons have gone into Christmas with limited terrain. I've skied Jay in January with the same amount of terrain they currently have open.

    That said, ski areas don't have too much to work with before the Christmas week. So, if this rating thread is biased towards holiday periods, perhaps pessimism is appropriate.

    Otherwise, it is pretty solidly in the middle of the pack. This past weekend had better than expected skiing. No natural snow on the horizon does concern me, though...

    EDIT: Just to clarify, I am not taking into account the non-skiing impact of the storm. Obviously, if you consider the overall damage the storm caused, not just to our snow pack and conditions, the season definitely just hit rock bottom.
  • riverc0il wrote: »
    The storm certainly hit the reset button, but I don't think it eliminates how good the skiing was for the past month.

    It is easy to be pessimistic regarding what was lost. But we must all remember how many seasons have gone into Christmas with limited terrain. I've skied Jay in January with the same amount of terrain they currently have open.

    That said, ski areas don't have too much to work with before the Christmas week. So, if this rating thread is biased towards holiday periods, perhaps pessimism is appropriate.

    Otherwise, it is pretty solidly in the middle of the pack. This past weekend had better than expected skiing. No natural snow on the horizon does concern me, though...

    EDIT: Just to clarify, I am not taking into account the non-skiing impact of the storm. Obviously, if you consider the overall damage the storm caused, not just to our snow pack and conditions, the season definitely just hit rock bottom.

    I agree. And from reading the summaries of previous seasons above, it seems that while December rain and thaws are far from unusual, they rarely spell doom for the rest of the season.

    It will be interesting to see how the loss in snowpack and infrastructure damage in parts of New England affect the economics of holiday week at ski areas.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 5,489
    I think you'd think differently if you lived in Western Maine. We've lost 100% of natural snowpack, not to mention roads, houses, and businesses. A significant amount of machine made snow is also gone. Access to Sugarloaf and Sunday River is still limited. Before this skiing had been mediocre to good, but this brings many ski areas back to their late November snowpack. Yes, we've had other thaws and rainstorms in December, but none in the last 10 years come close to this one. We've gotten over 10 inches of rain this month, that's crazy. There will be no lift served alpine skiing anywhere in the state until at least Thursday.
    - Sam
  • CM had 12 open runs before the rain and 10 afterwards. No natural snow, but our machine-made is deep and weathered the storm.

    I'm not kneejerk where one or two days elevates the season to the top or drags the season to the bottom.

    If we recover by Christmas week, that's the end of the "early season" and I'd place it at 4 or 5.

  • This thread, "Rating the xxxx Season Versus the Last 10 Years" has been going on for a long time. If you look through just the last 10-years, most seasons had significant freeze/thaw cycles.

    The fact is, this season, many areas had advanced runs open without snowmaking. That's unusual. A freeze/thaw cycle in December: That's normal!

    Crotched Mountain does not have a monopoly on quality snowmaking and quality grooming. Our guns went on last night, even before temps hit wet bulb and I suspect we will have the two lost runs back online, possibly even by today.

    I suspect the same will be the case with the other major players with significant snowmaking plants.

    I see the next major indicator of where this season fits will be the skier visit numbers for the Christmas week.

  • This thread, "Rating the xxxx Season Versus the Last 10 Years" has been going on for a long time. If you look through just the last 10-years, most seasons had significant freeze/thaw cycles.

    The fact is, this season, many areas had advanced runs open without snowmaking. That's unusual. A freeze/thaw cycle in December: That's normal!

    Crotched Mountain does not have a monopoly on quality snowmaking and quality grooming. Our guns went on last night, even before temps hit wet bulb and I suspect we will have the two lost runs back online, possibly even by today.

    I suspect the same will be the case with the other major players with significant snowmaking plants.

    I see the next major indicator of where this season fits will be the skier visit numbers for the Christmas week.

    I'm sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can just write this off as a normal freeze-thaw cycle. It's already been recognized as a 100 year flood by the National Weather Service. I guess this is just another example of how only the conditions at a select few mountain (Crotched, Killington, Sunapee) really matter when it comes to this thread. Maybe these pictures will help show a little more of how significant this event actually was?

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02s8ECvD2mKeHfDMRUEBA3zM1Kv39cPfgmDxfEA4jpzYaBkNhqidT51f1G2BHgxLFHl&id=100063524950386&mibextid=Nif5oz

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid03pDUbxpYhiV9Qve5Ukwqj76qfrpwrwNmtSXjD6E7QwiVD1Qq148vCDfMtynams5Dl&id=100063541090585&mibextid=Nif5oz
    - Sam

  • This thread, "Rating the xxxx Season Versus the Last 10 Years" has been going on for a long time. If you look through just the last 10-years, most seasons had significant freeze/thaw cycles.

    The fact is, this season, many areas had advanced runs open without snowmaking. That's unusual. A freeze/thaw cycle in December: That's normal!

    Crotched Mountain does not have a monopoly on quality snowmaking and quality grooming. Our guns went on last night, even before temps hit wet bulb and I suspect we will have the two lost runs back online, possibly even by today.

    I suspect the same will be the case with the other major players with significant snowmaking plants.

    I see the next major indicator of where this season fits will be the skier visit numbers for the Christmas week.

    I'm sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can just write this off as a normal freeze-thaw cycle. It's already been recognized as a 100 year flood by the National Weather Service. I guess this is just another example of how only the conditions at a select few mountain (Crotched, Killington, Sunapee) really matter when it comes to this thread. Maybe these pictures will help show a little more of how significant this event actually was?

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02s8ECvD2mKeHfDMRUEBA3zM1Kv39cPfgmDxfEA4jpzYaBkNhqidT51f1G2BHgxLFHl&id=100063524950386&mibextid=Nif5oz

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid03pDUbxpYhiV9Qve5Ukwqj76qfrpwrwNmtSXjD6E7QwiVD1Qq148vCDfMtynams5Dl&id=100063541090585&mibextid=Nif5oz

    I didn't say it wasn't significant. I'm saying that it is only a couple of days in 100+ day season. And I'm sure there will be those who will ignore this and try to elevate it to #1 if we get a week of powder days in February. This event will not ruin the season; a week of powder days in February will not make this season.
  • Without question, this storm was extremely destructive (most especially in Maine). I do not mean to lessen the significance of the damage done.

    But I think we should limit this evaluation to skiing. Otherwise, every blizzard or nor'easter needs to factor in damage to property, infrastructure, and loss of life.

    A review of what is open at the areas that I frequent yields results not dissimilar to December thaws during previous seasons. Natural snow dependent MRG took it pretty bad, but will reopen tomorrow with the Practice Slope Chair.

    Before the storm, we had a lot natural snow base and good snowmaking weather. We've seen much worse available terrain in mid- to late-December when the early season was horrifically warm and dry.

    All Maine areas being closed for a few days of recovery is certainly significant and unusual, and should be factored in. But, from a skiing perspective, we've had worse during the past 10 years.
  • Looking at this also from a financial standpoint, having to rebuild roads and fix erosion on trails will be a significant financial hit. Not to mention having to rebuild snowmaking pond dams and the lost business because of all of this. Sunday River isn't reopening until this weekend.
    - Sam
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 2,512

    This thread, "Rating the xxxx Season Versus the Last 10 Years" has been going on for a long time. If you look through just the last 10-years, most seasons had significant freeze/thaw cycles.

    The fact is, this season, many areas had advanced runs open without snowmaking. That's unusual. A freeze/thaw cycle in December: That's normal!

    Crotched Mountain does not have a monopoly on quality snowmaking and quality grooming. Our guns went on last night, even before temps hit wet bulb and I suspect we will have the two lost runs back online, possibly even by today.

    I suspect the same will be the case with the other major players with significant snowmaking plants.

    I see the next major indicator of where this season fits will be the skier visit numbers for the Christmas week.

    I'm sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can just write this off as a normal freeze-thaw cycle. It's already been recognized as a 100 year flood by the National Weather Service. I guess this is just another example of how only the conditions at a select few mountain (Crotched, Killington, Sunapee) really matter when it comes to this thread. Maybe these pictures will help show a little more of how significant this event actually was?

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02s8ECvD2mKeHfDMRUEBA3zM1Kv39cPfgmDxfEA4jpzYaBkNhqidT51f1G2BHgxLFHl&id=100063524950386&mibextid=Nif5oz

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid03pDUbxpYhiV9Qve5Ukwqj76qfrpwrwNmtSXjD6E7QwiVD1Qq148vCDfMtynams5Dl&id=100063541090585&mibextid=Nif5oz

    To be fair, you've done the same thing (held very positive/drastically different outlooks on the season) when the Maine resorts had much more favorable weather and snowfall than the balance of New England.

    We're all guilty. I've done the same thing when we (Whaleback) had an abomination of a season and everyone else seemed to fair much better. It's all relative I guess.
  • Lots of good comments. Everybody knows that I value the economics of a season and if the result of this storm is a large decrease in skier visits, it certainly take a hit.
  • Sunday River is finally back open, although without any lift from the South Ridge Base area. Titcomb isn't going to be able to reopen until the 26th. Lost Valley has now regained their trail count that they had before the storm. All of the open areas in the state are taking a significant hit in business during what should be a busy vacation week.
    - Sam
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 5,489
    Many ski areas are closed again for much of this week due to the warmth, rain, and humidity. Some ski areas, such as Titcomb, have yet to reopen since the big rain storm. So far this season, they've only been able to be open for 3 days. And I don't think anywhere that is open has been very busy. It's turning out to be an absolute bust of a vacation week, and is easily the worst start to the season in the past 10 years.

    Additionally, I've only been cross country skiing for 5 years, but this is by far the worst start to the season in that time. I've only been able to get out and ski once on natural snow this season.
    - Sam
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 2,512
    I know of 3 ski areas that have yet to even open, and yes they have snowmaking.

    Right there with 2015-2016 in my book and there's nothing a couple good weeks of riding earlier can do to change that IMHO. Still plenty of time to alter course, but up to now that's the facts.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 5,489
    newpylong wrote: »
    I know of 3 ski areas that have yet to even open, and yes they have snowmaking.

    Right there with 2015-2016 in my book and there's nothing a couple good weeks of riding earlier can do to change that IMHO. Still plenty of time to alter course, but up to now that's the facts.

    Yep, I also know of a few. Quarry Road's alpine slope will finally open for the season this Saturday. Camden Snow Bowl pushed their opening day back until tomorrow. In southern New England, there are numerous ski areas, including Ski Bradford, which have yet to open. The only natural snow only ski area which has opened so far, that I know of, is Big Squaw/Big Moose, which opened for one weekend with just the beginner slope (They're natural snow only this season due to a dam failure in the storm.). Spruce Mountain has only been open for one day so far.
    - Sam
  • Things are definitely looking much worse than a week ago. But the thaw/fog/drizzle of this week could have been even warmer with rain storms. Most areas seem to be holding onto what little open man made terrain they had a week ago.

    That said, an abysmal holiday week for ski areas. Every state has at least one area closed. Magic is running only their handle tow. I haven't had any interest in skiing during the past two weeks.

    Could be on pace for a season like 21-22. There was a strong el nino in 15-16, hopefully we don't have a repeat of that season. Still too early to start those comparisons.
  • Posts: 897
    Definitely not as bad as 2015/16 but not by much. 2011/2012 sucked too. Hopefully this year rebounds and we quickly forget about the end of 2023.
  • Posts: 3,603
    This is brutal. Never seen so much snow-sucking fog and drizzle.

    Back to square 1, maybe square 2 if you made enough snow.
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