“Days 18-19 - Magic 2/8-9 - total 14” Pow over 2 days. No rain since MLK so woods knee deep.”
It didn’t get warm or rain to ruin the fresh snow until around the first week of March, so the rest of February was awesome, even if we didn’t get any major dumps.
“Days 18-19 - Magic 2/8-9 - total 14” Pow over 2 days. No rain since MLK so woods knee deep.”
It didn’t get warm or rain to ruin the fresh snow until around the first week of March, so the rest of February was awesome, even if we didn’t get any major dumps.
Seems 6 to low…..
But February vacation week was killed by extreme cold weather - not by bad snow.
I guess my recollection of 14-15 overall was different but I took no detailed notes by any means. I remember tons of snow and barely any thaws throughout the season. It was the year I would wake up to a fresh inch constantly. It ranks high in my mind but the holidays definitely were a bust for the mountain for one reason or another.
In the absence of a miracle, I am now in agreement that this season drops to 10th place.
I've seen more undercasts this season than I've seen in the last decade combined. March is usually a big snow month, but nothing in the forecast but rain, rain and more rain.
Close to 2 inches of rain forecast between now and Thursday night in VT. Light freeze Thursday and Friday nights, then back into the same routine as this week.
Radar is a steady stream of green from SW to NE, not moving an inch out to sea.
There is a thread on KZone about Superstar potential closing guesses. I am quite amazed to see some answers going late into May. There are plenty of bare spots developing around the mountain even on snowmaking terrain already.
In the absence of a miracle, I am now in agreement that this season drops to 10th place.
Agreed.
If we don't get more snow or stabilize our snow pack soon, it could actually be worse than 2015-2016. That season featured October lift serviced and K went late into May. Late season was acceptable that season. This year, some major areas may not make April.
I don't recall ever having this type of late-February early-March melt down. We are looking at three weeks straight of mostly above freezing temps and a lot of rain, and no snap freeze to stop the bleeding.
Many mountains are not even getting below freezing at night. Today's high on the summit of Mt Washington was 40.2*f (36.2*F right now at 6:21pm).
Looks like a solid amount of snow for northern New England Sunday-Tuesday. Southern New England is going to get all or mostly rain. Probably will be game over for many areas south of the Manchesters, and even some north of that.
Obviously, the data for this year at the Stake will be much worse after the next 48 hours:
Last week after looking at the models I said, "We'll see where you all stand after 7+ more brutal days of 50 degrees mixed with fog, rain and a refreeze mixed in."
Interesting to see folks finally come around. I'll be happy to see this one behind us.
Right now this winter seems to be tracking very similarly to 2015-2016. This season may have had a better start than that year, but it seems like it will have a worse end. If things turn around in late March or April, maybe it can stay ahead of 2015-2016, but otherwise it seems right on par.
There used to be another site (I think with a .edu domain) where you could access day-by-day snow depth values for the Mt Mansfield stake rather than just the graph. Anybody have that link? I can’t seem to find it through Google.
EDIT: never mind… at the bottom of the current snow stake page you can download a .csv file for all daily data back to 1954.
CM weathered it pretty well. We had a number of trails closed today, but they will be back on-line by Saturday with a little work from the grooming team. We lost permanently, barring a major snowstorm, Lower Blastoff and a short connector trail (Eclipse).
With the "end-of-season" now in site, here is my suggested end point of the 23-4 season as of mid-March 2024.
Third Summary of 2023-4:
2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. There was a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2. 2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1. 2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents Day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1. 2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year. 2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day. 2022-3: No October skiing; Very limited November skiing; near record warmth in November impacting early-season snow making; already 3 or 4 freeze/melt cycles. A widespread 12"+ storm hits New England in mid-December providing huge trail expansion and some spectacular December skiing. Late December and early January was rife with rain, although the Xmas week itself was pretty good economically speaking for the industry. The remainder of January was reasonably good with a few powder days. MLK weekend provided 3-better-than-average days. Late Feb. thru March featured several large storms and generally excellent skiing. It should be noted, that if one lived in C, Eastern MA or RI, this season would be ranked lower. Very strong April skiing for the areas that remained open. 2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain. Except for the ice-storm of Feb. 16, the month included many days of superb skiing. The 2nd half of Feb. and all of March included no natural snow. Long COVID-related lift lines continue to be a problem at most areas. 2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18. 2021-22: No lift-serviced Oct. skiing. Nov. 5 to Thanksgiving Week: Just Killington and their 2-trails. By mid-December: Limited skiing at a small percentage of ski areas. Xmas week featured 3-days of rain and fog. By mid-January, only a handful of New England areas are more than half-open. No January thaw. February and March featured some good days, but very little natural snow and lots of warm weather. March was record warm with many areas closing by mid-March. Good spring skiing in April, wasn't enough to redeem this season. Killington made it to June 4, but they were the last open lift-serviced skiing by 3-weeks. 2023-4: No October skiing (except for Ward Hill). Killington opened Nov. 6. Most of the other "big boys" were able to open for Thanksgiving. Northern areas did better with natural snow, but all of ski country had great snowmaking weather in early December, providing more open terrain than normal. The 2nd half of December featured unusual warmth and 2-major rainstorms. Christmas week crowds were minimal. January offered a mixed bag: several horrific rain events, but an excellent MLK weekend and a reasonably good ending to the month. While February remained warm with minimal snow-fall, most areas salvaged a strong Presidents Day Week. March brought more warm weather and early closings. The northern part of the state did well with big snow while the more southerly areas got rain.{Added Apr. 10} Two spectacular storms at the end of March created a window of outstanding skiing for a week or so at the end-of-March/beginning-of-April. There was little in the way of industry-wide crowds, although the areas that were open were undoubtedly profitable.
2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.
I pretty much agree, but what state are you talking about when you say "the northern part of the state did well?" Certainly not northern Maine. I assume VT and perhaps NH?
your partly optimistic/glass was half full review of 2023-4 makes me focus on remembering the good parts and is appreciated.
yes there was bad, but when I kick it out of my mind, your words accentuate the positive!
2023-4:
Most of the other "big boys" were able to open for Thanksgiving.
Northern areas did better with natural snow, but all of ski country had great snowmaking weather in early December, providing more open terrain than normal.
excellent MLK weekend and a reasonably good ending to the month.
most areas salvaged a strong Presidents Day Week.
The northern part of the state did well with big snow
I hope next season is better, but that the memories are just as sweet as this year.
MLK was not excellent, with rain on Saturday most places. Upstate NY, VT, NH.
President week was actually good, with snow prior, no negative weather, lots of sunshine, a few inches on Thursday/Friday.
While northern areas did better with snow, I wouldn’t say they did “Well” since most of the year has run below average at Mt Mansfield.
I pretty much agree, but what state are you talking about when you say "the northern part of the state did well?" Certainly not northern Maine. I assume VT and perhaps NH?
Saddleback, Sugarloaf and Sunday River came out OK. Stowe and north thereof.
I pretty much agree, but what state are you talking about when you say "the northern part of the state did well?" Certainly not northern Maine. I assume VT and perhaps NH?
Saddleback, Sugarloaf and Sunday River came out OK. Stowe and north thereof.
Saddleback and Sugarloaf did. Nowhere else in the state got enough snow to really help any.
Two spectacular storms at the end-of-March/beginning-of-April created a window of outstanding skiing for a week or so. There was little in the way of mid-season industry-wide crowds, although the areas that were open were undoubtedly profitable.
While one bad month does not kill a season, neither does a couple of good weeks make a season. IMO, the 2023-4 season stays in 10th place. Any disagreement?
Two spectacular storms at the end-of-March/beginning-of-April created a window of outstanding skiing for a week or so. There was little in the way of mid-season industry-wide crowds, although the areas that were open were undoubtedly profitable.
While one bad month does not kill a season, neither does a couple of good weeks make a season. IMO, the 2023-4 season stays in 10th place. Any disagreement?
I agree. It was some nice skiing, but the crowds weren't there and many places had already closed. It was fun, but didn't really have a large impact on the season overall.
I'll have to take a deeper look into the last ten years, but the last few weeks have been a huge bump, IMO. Most years, you don't get 2' dumps and we got two in a month.
Also, three storm cycles in a row had areas extending their season, whereas in late February and early March, I assumed most areas were going to close early due to the meltdown.
It won't be higher than mid-pack average for me. I'll have to take a look at the seasons rated 6-8 in the last ten list for a final call. Definitely better than the bottom two season on the current list.
Also, if you want to consider industry financials, a major storm into eclipse weekend must have been $$$ for many resorts. I would be willing to bet many NoVT areas had one of their most profitable weeks on their books.
Comments
“Days 18-19 - Magic 2/8-9 - total 14” Pow over 2 days. No rain since MLK so woods knee deep.”
It didn’t get warm or rain to ruin the fresh snow until around the first week of March, so the rest of February was awesome, even if we didn’t get any major dumps.
Seems 6 to low…..
But February vacation week was killed by extreme cold weather - not by bad snow.
I've seen more undercasts this season than I've seen in the last decade combined. March is usually a big snow month, but nothing in the forecast but rain, rain and more rain.
Radar is a steady stream of green from SW to NE, not moving an inch out to sea.
Put a fork in it.
Brutal
If we don't get more snow or stabilize our snow pack soon, it could actually be worse than 2015-2016. That season featured October lift serviced and K went late into May. Late season was acceptable that season. This year, some major areas may not make April.
I don't recall ever having this type of late-February early-March melt down. We are looking at three weeks straight of mostly above freezing temps and a lot of rain, and no snap freeze to stop the bleeding.
Many mountains are not even getting below freezing at night. Today's high on the summit of Mt Washington was 40.2*f (36.2*F right now at 6:21pm).
Looks like a solid amount of snow for northern New England Sunday-Tuesday. Southern New England is going to get all or mostly rain. Probably will be game over for many areas south of the Manchesters, and even some north of that.
Obviously, the data for this year at the Stake will be much worse after the next 48 hours:
thesnowway.com
And 3 hours later: basically standing still, dumping rain
Interesting to see folks finally come around. I'll be happy to see this one behind us.
I won't go that far, as I bought my Killington Spring pass in anticipation of an early end to everyone else's ski season!
EDIT: never mind… at the bottom of the current snow stake page you can download a .csv file for all daily data back to 1954.
Third Summary of 2023-4:
2018-9: Killington and Sunday River both opened on Oct. 19. Nov. snow and skiing was epic. Christmas week was above average, economically speaking. Jan. had a couple of thaws, but no major meltdown. There was a decent February, and 8 of the 9 days of Presidents Week featured great snow and great weather providing the industry a near record week. Most of VT, ME and northern NH had above average snowfall, but even the more southerly areas had great snowmaking weather to make up for any deficits. Early April featured some superb spring skiing, but mid-April included a severe meltdown where Killington dropped from 80 to 15 runs in a 2-day period. Despite that, the glacier on Killington's Superstar held up until June 2.
2013-4: The fact is, the season had a promising start, but two major meltdowns really put a damper on the season. Mad River Glen was all but shut down for a couple of weeks in January. January was unusually cold. We had a great Feb. vacation week, ending in a thaw that pretty much "firmed up" the surfaces followed by a major cold snap. The skiing in March was epic from Killington north and pretty good elsewhere. Superb skiing continued in April. Those in the Mid-Atlantic states might rate this season as #1.
2016-7: Early season: Excellent, but only at Killington; Snowfall: Average to average plus; Economics: Excellent Christmas week both weather-wise and snow; MLK Weekend was excellent despite a generally poor January; February: Thru the 15th: epic; Presidents Day thru Mar. 10 - gruesome, remainder of the season: Awesome; Killington makes it until June 1.
2017-8: No October skiing - Nov. 8 opening; credible Thanksgiving for bigger areas; fantastic snow at Xmas break but record low temps made the week an economic flop with most ski areas. Killington, Wildcat and other venerable giants of the industry, all closed for one or more days due to extreme cold. Jan. 10 started a 36-hour epic meltdown which turned MLK weekend into an economic disaster. Just as surfaces were beginning to recover, another meltdown pretty much neutralized Presidents Week. Most major storm following MLK day were followed by either rain or an extend meltdown. March and April have been epic. Killington just missed Memorial Day, but more areas were open in May than in any recent year.
2014-5: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December; Christmas: Rain - pretty well killed the business for the week; January including MLK Weekend: Bad - not much snow, not much business; February: Unbelievably great snow, but record cold weather kept the crowds away; Late season was great with Killington going until Memorial Day.
2022-3: No October skiing; Very limited November skiing; near record warmth in November impacting early-season snow making; already 3 or 4 freeze/melt cycles. A widespread 12"+ storm hits New England in mid-December providing huge trail expansion and some spectacular December skiing. Late December and early January was rife with rain, although the Xmas week itself was pretty good economically speaking for the industry. The remainder of January was reasonably good with a few powder days. MLK weekend provided 3-better-than-average days. Late Feb. thru March featured several large storms and generally excellent skiing. It should be noted, that if one lived in C, Eastern MA or RI, this season would be ranked lower. Very strong April skiing for the areas that remained open.
2020-1 Early season curtailed due to COVID-19. Mid-December was off the charts. After a Christmas disastrous warm rain, there has been consistent cold weather allowing for lots of good snow-making weather, but January has been very light on natural snow. Economically, the ski areas seem to be doing well with people desperate to get outdoors and the absence of a super-spreader event associated with skiing have all been plusses. Despite the lack of January snow, with no January thaw, conditions remained very good. Early Feb. has seen lots of snow events opening glades and non-snowmaking terrain. Except for the ice-storm of Feb. 16, the month included many days of superb skiing. The 2nd half of Feb. and all of March included no natural snow. Long COVID-related lift lines continue to be a problem at most areas.
2019-2020: Early season: - No October skiing, but great from mid-November to mid-December. Xmas week was so-so. Except for MLK weekend, January featured a lot of wild temperature swings and not much natural snow. Snow tended to be better north of the MA border. Feb. was mediocre, with little new snow, but Feb. vacation week was good. Mar. was disturbed by COVID-19 and unusually warm temps. The last New England ski area open were shut down at COB on Mar. 18.
2021-22: No lift-serviced Oct. skiing. Nov. 5 to Thanksgiving Week: Just Killington and their 2-trails. By mid-December: Limited skiing at a small percentage of ski areas. Xmas week featured 3-days of rain and fog. By mid-January, only a handful of New England areas are more than half-open. No January thaw. February and March featured some good days, but very little natural snow and lots of warm weather. March was record warm with many areas closing by mid-March. Good spring skiing in April, wasn't enough to redeem this season. Killington made it to June 4, but they were the last open lift-serviced skiing by 3-weeks.
2023-4: No October skiing (except for Ward Hill). Killington opened Nov. 6. Most of the other "big boys" were able to open for Thanksgiving. Northern areas did better with natural snow, but all of ski country had great snowmaking weather in early December, providing more open terrain than normal. The 2nd half of December featured unusual warmth and 2-major rainstorms. Christmas week crowds were minimal. January offered a mixed bag: several horrific rain events, but an excellent MLK weekend and a reasonably good ending to the month. While February remained warm with minimal snow-fall, most areas salvaged a strong Presidents Day Week. March brought more warm weather and early closings. The northern part of the state did well with big snow while the more southerly areas got rain.{Added Apr. 10} Two spectacular storms at the end of March created a window of outstanding skiing for a week or so at the end-of-March/beginning-of-April. There was little in the way of industry-wide crowds, although the areas that were open were undoubtedly profitable.
2015-6: After a flurry of mid-October skiing at Killington and Sunday River, things went dead for 3 weeks or so. December was one of the warmest in history with almost no snowmaking opportunities. Much of ski country did not even open until after Christmas. The absence of natural snow has minimized glade skiing. Mad River was open a grand total of 45 days and 1/3 of those were Practice Slope only. Killington ran until May 29 despite receiving only 1/3 of its normal snow total. Most areas closed 2 to 3 weeks earlier than usual. A few old timers remember seasons this bad but not in the last 10 years.
Comments always welcome.
your partly optimistic/glass was half full review of 2023-4 makes me focus on remembering the good parts and is appreciated.
yes there was bad, but when I kick it out of my mind, your words accentuate the positive!
2023-4:
I hope next season is better, but that the memories are just as sweet as this year.
MLK was not excellent, with rain on Saturday most places. Upstate NY, VT, NH.
President week was actually good, with snow prior, no negative weather, lots of sunshine, a few inches on Thursday/Friday.
While northern areas did better with snow, I wouldn’t say they did “Well” since most of the year has run below average at Mt Mansfield.
Saddleback, Sugarloaf and Sunday River came out OK. Stowe and north thereof.
Saddleback and Sugarloaf did. Nowhere else in the state got enough snow to really help any.
While one bad month does not kill a season, neither does a couple of good weeks make a season. IMO, the 2023-4 season stays in 10th place. Any disagreement?
I agree. It was some nice skiing, but the crowds weren't there and many places had already closed. It was fun, but didn't really have a large impact on the season overall.
Also, three storm cycles in a row had areas extending their season, whereas in late February and early March, I assumed most areas were going to close early due to the meltdown.
It won't be higher than mid-pack average for me. I'll have to take a look at the seasons rated 6-8 in the last ten list for a final call. Definitely better than the bottom two season on the current list.
Also, if you want to consider industry financials, a major storm into eclipse weekend must have been $$$ for many resorts. I would be willing to bet many NoVT areas had one of their most profitable weeks on their books.
thesnowway.com